I wonder if any one can give me some advice on US uniforms in Vietnam, What was the difference between Army and Marine Corp uniform and webbing

Secondly any ideas which paint supplier match the uniform and webbing colour best. I do realise that colour will change over time and use, mildew and rot would all take place

Thank you in advance for your help

Keith,

I am sure someone can give you chapter and verse on fabric colors and dye etc.

I think in general the U.S. uniforms were a Medium Green color to start with, but were quickly faded by sun, rain etc.

Web gear was generally some olive drab shade.

When doing uniforms on figures I try to vary colors (I.e. One color from several manufactures) on various parts as much as possible. Every piece comes from some production lot of similar gear but fades, wears etc differently.

Also the time frame is important, early in the war there might be more olive drab gear and unifroms- as units would have deployed with what they had or could get from stocks, once th conflict got going there was more gear designed and produced for the area.

HTH
Cheers
Bret

hi, Keith.

Army advisors deployed to Vietnam in the early '60s wore the basic garrison fatigue uniform they would have worn stateside. When combat Marines arrived in Vietnam in 1965, they, too, wore the basic utility uniform they wore stateside. When the jungle fatigue BDU (Battle Dress Uniform) was issued, the USA and USMC uniform was basically identical. The Marines had their Globe & Anchor insignia with USMC beneath it stenciled in black on the left breast pocket of the BDU jacket. Jungle boots were the same for each service as were the cloth camouflage helmet covers though these had some color variations in the woodland tones pattern.

Web gear quickly evolved into equipment that individual infantrymen wanted to carry. The standard U.S. web pistol belt was supported by suspenders to help bear the considerable loads these troops carried to the field. Rucksacks, canteens, magazine pouches, rain ponchos and every other type of web equipment were used in various combinations to each soldier's need. The issued colors changed quickly usually bleached out and faded by the sun and exposure to the elements. Some originally OD green equipment took on a khaki tone in a short period of time. Jungle boots, particularly, bore the brunt of the exposure to a harsh environment. The black leather pieces on the boots quickly faded out completely under extended field use. The moisture resistant inserts on the sides of the boots also dramatically faded out of color. So, too, the camouflage helmet covers.

As our other forum contributor noted, it is best to start out with any number of different green paints that fall within the broader OD category. Varying basic colors among figures in a diorama would be totally realistic. The only thing I never noticed was a new pair of jungle fatigue pants with an old, field worn BDU jacket. It seemed like the full uniform always "matched." Totally worn and faded, of course, but it matched!

Over the years, the various Osprey Series of volumes on Warriors, Men-at-War, etc. have had marvelous references for forces in Vietnam. Take a look at some of those for a basic color palette and then go from there. It would be my recommendation to weather your Vietnam uniforms for combat troops with severe doses of pastels or weathering pigments to capture the red dust that permeated EVERYTHING there. The underlying OD should always be filtered with massive quantities of Vietnam red dust. Good color photo references will provide you with the proper dust tone!

Good luck and cheers.

Larry Reid

Hello Keith,

I think the basics about the uniforms have been covered fairly well, but the way to tell the difference between Marines and Soldiers (besides the EGA and USMC on the left breast pocket) hasn't yet, so here it goes...(also, the term Battle Dress Uniform (BDU) didn't come into common use until the early 1980's when the Woodland Pattern Battle Dress Uniform was introduced to the Army and then the rest of the US Armed Forces).

One of the easiest ways to tell the difference between Marines and Soldiers is the flak jacket. Although there were exceptions depending on where people were located and the local supply chain, generally speaking Marines wore the bulkier style flak jacket that contained plates that were visible around the lower portion of the vest, a rope ridge in the fabric over the right shoulder, a small pocket on the left chest, and depending on whether it was an older or later model vest it may have two large pockets on the front. Soldiers, if they wore a flak jacket, usually had either the M1952 or the M69 vests and variations of those plus some experimental types. Army Infantry could often be seen not wearing flak jackets because of the heat. Armor and Mechanized Infantry crews were seen wearing them more often. It also depended on the commander's guidance concerning the wearing of body armor. There were some exceptions to the type of flak jacket used by which branch of service. Sometimes you could see a few Marines wearing the "Army" style flak jackets and vice verca. Army Duster crews serving with and supporting Marines in I Corps were often issued the "Marine" style flak jacket because that was what was available to them. Also, there were some instances where Marines did not wear flak jackets, but for the most part Marines were usually seen wearing them.

In regards to equipment, in the earlier part of the war, Marines were issued older gear from WWII and Korean War stocks and gradually as new equipment became available in the supply system those items were issued or traded for. Marine packs were usually the M41 Haversack and Knapsack which were sometimes replaced by ARVN rucksacks, captured NVA rucksacks, or Lightweight Rucksacks traded with the Army. Soldiers were primarily issued the Lightweight Rucksack with frame for the majority of the war however other types of rucksacks could be found in the supply system and were issued out. Old mountain rucksacks were sometimes issued early in the war and the tropical rucksack when available later in the war.

Although the helmet and covers were the same, Marines usually had a piece of rubber innertube used as a helmet band if any and the Soldiers had access to an issued helmet band that was made of OD elastic material.

Another thing about the uniforms that hadn't been covered is that the Army pretty much remained in the Olive Green Jungle Fatigues as general issue throughout the war besides the stateside OG fatigues. The Marines started to transition to the ERDL camouflage Jungle fatigues in 1968. During the transition period, one could see Marines with one item of ERDL clothing and the other in OG. Later as stocks were more plentiful, full sets of ERDL were issued. Some Army units were able to obtain ERDL uniforms, but those were primarily Reconnaissance, Ranger, and Special Forces type units although some crafty traders could obtain them in a trade.

My best advice to you if you are going to do any Vietnam figures is to decide what time period you want the figures to represent, what branch of service, what unit and location, and then do a little research by finding some pictures of how the Marines or Soldiers were dressed and equipped. When determining the location, look at pictures of the soil in the area because Vietnam was not all red dirt. There were places where the dirt and mud was more of a grayish, brown, or tan color. Much of the country had the red dirt, but not all of it so you will want to keep that in mind when you are weathering your figures and vehicles.

I hope this has helped. If you have any specific questions I can try to answer them.

Cheers,
James

Good info on the flak jackets, James.

I respectfully submit that the only time there was an absence of red dust in Vietnam was for the Brown Water Navy in the Delta or during the monsoon seasons up north. Otherwise, there was ALWAYS that insidious dust. You could feel it on your teeth and taste it too!

As always a big THANK YOU to the people who replied and for helping to clear my confusion on these matters, Thanks again Guys, Keith

Hey Larry,

I agree that the majority of the country was covered with red dust, I just was mentioning to Keith that there were some places where it wasn't predominant mainly because he was asking about Marines and those guys could be in areas where it was the red dirt, white or tan sand, or the grayish muck. That's why I suggested researching the terrain of the area being depicted. Most of the Vietnam figures and dioramas I build are in areas where the red dirt is present.

That red dust did work it's way into everything, didn't it?:) For the people who are looking at this thread who are not familiar with what we are talking about, the red laterite soil would cause a thick red dust in the dry seasons especially that would find it's way into every little nook and cranny in equipment, clothing, and people. That red dust would work its way into your pores and it could take weeks to wash it all away from your skin.

Cheers,
James

You're certainly right about specific locale research when considering your modeling efforts. I guess THE two most iconic images of Marines in Vietnam were their battle through Hue and, of course, the seige of Khe Sanh. As you know, the former was fought mostly in a rather cold (by Vietnam standards) rain without dust and the latter where the Marines were on a steady diet of dust for 77 days! I spent considerable time at Khe Sanh during Operation Lam Son 719 in February and March of '71. The constant blowing dust made things miserable for all and presented a big time challenge for all but especially for the chopper crews and their maintenance guys. Were it not for American aircrews, God only knows how much more of a beat down the ARVN would have taken in that operation.


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Hello Keith, I have a collection of original issue uniforms and gear from the Vietnam war, er...I mean police action, including most patterns and camo types. If you want up close pics of anything in particular, just let me know.

Troy