I wanna know if the commanders of German tanks still put their heads outside the cupola for observe if they are in battle,or they use the periscope?
How about Wittman?what way did he fight?
also any good history web site?
Thanks
Tim

tim the comanders had periscopes in the copolas in tigers and panthers I think the others had vision slots stugs and Jagpanthers often had scissor type periscope stiking out a hatch but I'd guess many would look out the turret to use bino's

im not ure what you mean,

but once a tank is closed down, the periscopes provide greatly reduced vision,

so it was common for tank commanders to have their heads at least outside the tank, to give better vision, and possibly give hand signals to other tanks, infantry etc.

if your asking would it be feasible to model a tank with its commander exposed in the cupola, i would say yes!

cheers

joe

hi,

Otto Carius wrote (in his book "tigers in the mud")the difference between russian tanker commanders and german commanders, which was russians always buckle up to the smallest hole so they dont have a clear vision of the battlefield, but german commanders always( at least carius) direct the battles while their waist up exposed.
That way they can see the infantry formations better and see the tanks when they are too close to see from vision holes or periscopes.

Actually carius was injured for the first time when he was directing a battle in eastern front and those early produting cupola of his tiger was his by an AT gun. Luckly he was ducked inside to light a cigarette at that time but cupola flew away from its weld points.

if i find the exact paragraph when he talks about russian tankers, i ll post it here. I need to dig into the book.

Thanks,
Orkun

just watch some episodes of band of brothers,, like episde 3 Carentan. most of the commanders are outside halfway out of the cupolas giving commands

Deaman is right. German tank commanders primarily operated with at least their head exposed. The main reason for this is that the cuppola was very cramped and although they had vision ports all around, it was difficult to rotate their bodies around so that they had complete, all around vision. The placement of the cuppola also increased the difficulty of seeing out the right side of the tank. Obviously when there was enemy infantry around or they were under an artillery strike they would drop down inside the turret.
Whitman did fight this way. I've read "TIger Ace; The Life Story of Michael Whitman" and in that he talks about the difficulties of operating in the cuppola as well as mentions near misses while his head/ torso was exposed. I think this behavior was dictated but the conditions and not necessarily any specific doctrine or training.

But wouldent that be a bit suicidal what with all the bullets and shrapenel flying around?

Great thread - I like it.
From a safety standpoint I would say - they'd be inside. But from a vision and 'ability' standpoint it make sense that they would open up and expose themselves at least some.
Imagine being in battle and only seeing 10 - 20 degrees of open field in front of you.
Plus, from the documentaries etc I have read and seen TC's had to have an air of inviincibility about them which would lead me to believe that they would go riding into battle exposed.

i'd agree with that po some points slodder assitting in the tank mught give the other crew members and others a negitive image and give the impression that they were a bit if a coward which might in turn work it's way through the tank and unit by not taking risks ect

a good book to read and it does answer a lot of questions is "panzer aces" by franz kurowski and translated by david johnson.
cheers-carpe diem

when I was a tc on an m1a1 I liked to keep my hatch in the open protective position, meaning that it was locked in the half open position. It gave you overhead cover but still allowed you excellent vision. Being fully buttoned up robbed you of alot of vision.

Based on the way I did it, I would venture to say they rode around standing up in the coupola, when the action started, they would drop down and pop up as needed but generally the hatch would be open. Button up time came probably when the bullets started whizzing fast and furious

Another quote from Otto Carius..."The lack of good observation by the Russians often resulted in the defeat of large units. TC's who slam their hatches shut at the beginning of an attack & don't open them again until the objective has been reached are useless, or at least second rate. No one can deny that the many casualties among the officers & other TC's were due to expsoing their heads. But these men did not die in vain. If they had moved with closed hatches, then many more would have found their deaths or been severly wounded."