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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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OK Sherman guys... could I do this?
jrnelson
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Iowa, United States
Joined: May 23, 2002
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Posted: Friday, January 23, 2004 - 05:19 PM UTC
Hi guys-

I mostly build German stuff, so my allied references are spotty to say the least.

I have the Italeri Marines Sherman, which is supposed to be an M4A2 (i think), but in reality (i guess) is an M4A3 with a diesel engine deck (you have to carve out the gas engine deck and add the diesel one) and gasoline exhaust system. Is that correct?

I also have the Academy M-36, which happens to come with the correct style diesel exhaust system and engine deck as spares.....

Could I feasibly build an M4A2 out of the Italeri kit, if I used the diesel exhaust parts from the M-36 kit? Or would I be better off buying the Formations M4A2 conversion as a basis. I'd go with the formations kit in a heartbeat if I knew that it would fit on an Italeri hull - does anybody know if this will work?

Oh yea - I have an extra Tamiya sherman hull as well.... will any Formations conversion fit on this hull? (Either the M4A1 or M4A2) I know that the Formations M4A1 kit is designed to use the Italeri hull, and the M4A2 is supposed to use the Academy hull. However, I have other plans and would like to use my spare Tamiya hull if it will work.

Thanks guys :-)
Later-
Nelson
Kencelot
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Joined: December 27, 2001
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Posted: Friday, January 23, 2004 - 10:22 PM UTC
Jeff, if you looking to make an M4A2, just wait a couple more weeks for Dragon's or Academy's to be released.
I hate cannibalizing several kits and spending too much, but that's just me.

Academy's M4A2 Review

As for Formations kits fitting this kit or that kit, I do not know. Have you checked out their site to see what they have to say? Formations
jrnelson
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Posted: Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I hate cannibalizing several kits and spending too much, but that's just me.


hehe - so do I

I'm just trying to figure out how to justify the Formations M4A2, as well as use up some spares.... lol

You know how it is.......... You get kit on your mind ya "gotta" have (Formations M4A2), but need to talk yourself into spending the money :-)

I think I'll send Formations an email with my question.... Rob should be able to help me :-)

Later-
Nelson
Hollowpoint
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 04:08 AM UTC
Nelson -- I think the idea of using the extra M36 parts is a great way to correct Italeri's "M4A2" kit. Use the "gas" parts to make your correct M36 and use the leftover "diesel" parts on your M4A2. Brilliant! Of course, if you want to go the whole nine yards, you should get some new bogies for the M4A2 -- Formations sell the correct bogies and the Italeri parts are a drop-fit.

Ken and others who might be interested: The Academy M36 kit includes parts for BOTH a gas M36 and a diesel M36B2. Nelson won't be wasting anything -- he'll be using parts that otherwise go unused.

Nelson -- not sure which "Tamiya Sherman" you have. If it's the M4, you can use the Formations M4A1 kit without much problem. The Formations M4A2 kit really needs a lower hull out from an Academy M10/Achilles/M36/M4A2. If you have any of the Tamiya M4A3 kits, it won't mix-n-match with any of the Formations kits.

Hope all this makes sense.
thebear
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 08:36 AM UTC
It all depends on what you want to do ...the M4A2 by Formations is the earlier type used by all(most) allied troops in Europe..(the British ,the French and Canadians got some...also the Marines in the Pacific...) His M4A2 is the all welded front end which is really cool so if you want to build an early M4A2 you "have to" buy this one ...See not hard finding a reason to buy a great kit!! lol And you can still finish the Italerie kit as a late ...Seems to me that the Angle at the back is not quite the same on the M4A2 and M4A3,s but not that noticable...check your references (see another reason for buying the Formation kit)lol ! I just ordered his M4A1 late kit along with the Firefly update ...Can't wait to get them!!

Rick
Hollowpoint
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Seems to me that the Angle at the back is not quite the same on the M4A2 and M4A3,s but not that noticable...check your references (see another reason for buying the Formation kit)lol !


Rick is right. I forgot about the rear upper-hull angle. I saw a comparison somewhere on the Web, but now I can't seem to find the link. I'll post it here if I find it again. (It may be over on Missing Lynx Allied Armor DG.)

IIRC, It's not very hard to change the rear hul angle of an M4A3 to the angle of an M4A2 -- cut a small wedge on each side and bend the rear plate down (plus a few other adjustments).
nfafan
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 07:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text



I have the Italeri Marines Sherman, which is supposed to be an M4A2 (i think), but in reality (i guess) is an M4A3 with a diesel engine deck (you have to carve out the gas engine deck and add the diesel one) and gasoline exhaust system. Is that correct?

True.



Could I feasibly build an M4A2 out of the Italeri kit, if I used the diesel exhaust parts from the M-36 kit? Or would I be better off buying the Formations M4A2 conversion as a basis. I'd go with the formations kit in a heartbeat if I knew that it would fit on an Italeri hull - does anybody know if this will work?

Word on the street is that with the OOTB engine deck swap and the wading trunks in place - the Italeri USMC Shermie looks close enough to pass as a late M4A2. Obviously not a true late M4A2, but close. Depends on how exact you want to be for the bucks.


Thanks guys :-)
Later-
Nelson
jrnelson
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 07:39 PM UTC
Thanks guys -

I appreciate all the Sherman intel :-)

Bob - so you are saying that my Tamiya M4A3 hull (old tool, kit 122 it think) won't work with any Formations conversion.....DRAT :-) lol

Is it a fit issue or an accuracy one? I feel I could "dig" up the correct parts if it is not a fit problem...... Academy is great for providing spare parts - .... buy three kits, and get a free set of bogies... hehehe... not to mention all the rest.........

Thanks again guys -
Jeff



Hollowpoint
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 08:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Is it a fit issue or an accuracy one? I feel I could "dig" up the correct parts if it is not a fit problem...... Academy is great for providing spare parts - .... buy three kits, and get a free set of bogies... hehehe... not to mention all the rest.........


It's a rear-end issue. The M4A3 is VERY different from an M4 or M4A1 (which shared the same 9-cylinder radial air-cooled engine). The M4A3 had a big Detroit V-8 -- plus internal (inside the tank hull) radiators, internal air filters, different exhaust, etc. The rear end is different -- you could probably correct it with severe surgery, but why? Any Italeri Sherman-based kit will serve as a platform (and provide donor parts for the suspension) with either Formations M4A1 kit. Rob based the M4A2 on the Academy M10/Achiulles/M36 lower hull.

My advice: Build the M4A3 as what it is.
Wanna go a bit further than the box? Here's a good "tweak list" that will keep you busy: http://www.usarmymodels.com/MANUFACTURERS/Tamiya/tamiya35122.html

Enjoy -- and please feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions!
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