AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
AK Int. Acrylic won't stick to Tamiya Primer
jzumbro
California, United States
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 09:30 PM UTC
Anyone had this happen to them? I tried painting AK Interactive Acrylic (gunmetal color) on top of both Tamiya fine gray primer on plastic as well as Tamiya metal primer/undercoat, and beaded up like oil on top of water. I tried MIG and Valleyo acrylics on the same Tamiya-primered surfaces and they stuck just fine. What's the deal?
jzumbro
California, United States
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 09:31 PM UTC
I forgot to type "and on top of Tamiya metal primer sprayed on PE parts-the AK doesn't stick to that either
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 03:54 PM UTC
Yeah I had this happen as well. But not with Vallejo acrylics- just with Mig Ammo acrylics. Some other people had a similar issue and the advice from someone who worked for the company was that it is caused by surface tension- that first coat should, supposedly, be put on very light and sparing and it should break that surface tension, allowing subsequent coats to bed down nicely. Can't say I tried that myself as I just switched over to a Tamiya paint to avoid any more mess but it may be worth a shot. Alternatively you could try using the AK or Mig Ammo primer instead of Tamiya.
panzer_fan
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 25, 2003
KitMaker: 427 posts
Armorama: 348 posts
Joined: March 25, 2003
KitMaker: 427 posts
Armorama: 348 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 05:41 PM UTC
Yeah, had it too a few months back.
Would be interesting to know if the same happens on Mr Surfacer primer.
Would be interesting to know if the same happens on Mr Surfacer primer.
jzumbro
California, United States
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 02:47 AM UTC
Well, I guess I won't use their paints anymore. Luckily I only have that one color.
jzumbro
California, United States
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 02:53 AM UTC
the official response from AK is that the paint won't work on a non-acrylic primer base. You have to use an acrylic primer. I guess the Tamiya is not acrylic but the can doesn't say.
edmund
United States
Joined: November 10, 2014
KitMaker: 668 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Joined: November 10, 2014
KitMaker: 668 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 03:06 AM UTC
You could try an acrylic flow release , same thing as breaking up surface tension .
jzumbro
California, United States
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 04:15 AM UTC
too many products from different brands..unnecessary...I'll just use what works for now..
brekinapez
Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 05:06 AM UTC
Tamiya is not a true acrylic - has some lacquer-like properties.
jomark
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: April 13, 2015
KitMaker: 117 posts
Armorama: 100 posts
Joined: April 13, 2015
KitMaker: 117 posts
Armorama: 100 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 05:36 AM UTC
I'd love to see pictures of these. First time I heard of this problem in painting.
A lot of people use tamiya spray can primers and if the statement of AK holds (and it being roughly similar to vallejo and mig ammo), then this should have been a rampant problem since tamiya spray can primers and mr. surfacer are lacquer based.
Typically I use lacquer or PU for primers, acrylic for base coats, and enamel for washes and detailing. This really piqued my curiosity.
A lot of people use tamiya spray can primers and if the statement of AK holds (and it being roughly similar to vallejo and mig ammo), then this should have been a rampant problem since tamiya spray can primers and mr. surfacer are lacquer based.
Typically I use lacquer or PU for primers, acrylic for base coats, and enamel for washes and detailing. This really piqued my curiosity.
Vicious
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 07:13 AM UTC
I have the same problem on Tamiya fine primer in can but i don't remember if was Vallejo,lifecolor or Italeri acrilycs,i try with Tamiya normal primer (not the "fine" one) and the problem was desapeard!!...some people use a little bit of glass cleaner to thin the acrilycs paint, to break the surface tension ,in Italy is called "Vetril".
jzumbro
California, United States
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Posted: Monday, October 05, 2015 - 11:36 PM UTC
Here are the 2 email replies from Fernando at AK, copied and pasted here. From what I read on the interwebs, acrylic primers are not that great and hard to find, but I am not sure if this is true..?:
1.the color works better over an acrylic primer, if is a glossy surface not this, but all acrylics metallic colors don’t work fine, you can test other bottle from another brand but will be same, if you varnish before in acrylic you can use without problem
2.Tamiya label their products like aqueous or acrylic but in really are laquers that need their solvent to use and not are exactly acrylics,
I don’t have used their primer but I suppose is the same, anyway if you have other gun metal there and want to test we both solve doubt
1.the color works better over an acrylic primer, if is a glossy surface not this, but all acrylics metallic colors don’t work fine, you can test other bottle from another brand but will be same, if you varnish before in acrylic you can use without problem
2.Tamiya label their products like aqueous or acrylic but in really are laquers that need their solvent to use and not are exactly acrylics,
I don’t have used their primer but I suppose is the same, anyway if you have other gun metal there and want to test we both solve doubt
OddBall84
Netherlands
Joined: May 20, 2015
KitMaker: 335 posts
Armorama: 266 posts
Joined: May 20, 2015
KitMaker: 335 posts
Armorama: 266 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 - 12:20 AM UTC
This has me worried as my M4A3 build is nearing the stage where I want to put primer over the engine bay. Never worked with AK Interactive, Ammo Mig Jimenez or Vallejo colors before and never used primer before either just Revell colors.