The Late Production Panther G 'hard edge' camo.

Do you guys think it was field applied or at the factory? If in the field then were tools and spare tracks "covered up" then?

I have looked and read EVERYWHERE and cannot get this question answered. I know there is little photographic evidence but some help and or speculation would be greatly appreciated!!!




Jeff

Jeff;

Hi!

I think that, to some extent, the question is "sort of" answered by specifying a late-war Panther G. Hard-edge paint schemes were probably more a late-war factory thing than any sort of unit / in-the-field job. My reasoning is that hard-edge means either hand-brushed and / or masked and sprayed on. It's the orderly large-scale hand-brushing or that masking that would take time - more time than probably commonly available in the front-line units late in the war. We do know - or perhaps think that we "know" - that there were orders passed to factories to do standardized schemes during production, so as to save crew time for the business that they were hired for... While I have no solid evidence for this being exactly the case for Panthers, there are a couple of photos out on the web that show new "Hetzers" in look-a-like standard hard-edged schemes at the factory... And there are some photos around showing multiple late war G all wearing the same scheme. So, it seems that this could likely have been true for some later Panther G, as well. Of course, one can also probably fairly raise the argument that a unit commander could have ordered his support activity to paint all of his tanks using a common scheme - which in some ways would be more like the factory doing this job than individual crew doing it in the field "whenever time, paint, personal energy, and peacefulness were all available at the same time"

There you have it, Jeff, my OPINION and suppositions, for what they are worth(less)!

Cheers!

Bob

Maybe these help?
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer-colors-1934-1945.htm
http://www.panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage

To my understanding camo was factory painted.
If you dont have exact date for the panther I would go with that factory camo with ambush scheme

For field painted camo it depends if the crew cared to remove the tools etc before painting so...

Jeff,
Checking my references, all late Panther G hard edge was done at the factory, so tracks and tools would have been off the tank when it was painted.

Jeff, yes, there's a nice photo on another page on the achtungpanzer site:


This same photo, and another of the same tank but giving a closer up view of those tools on the front, appears in much better quality in the Tom Jentz book "Germany's Panther Tank - The Quest for Combat Supremacy". The shovel handle certainly appears to be a pale wood colour, and the shovel blade is black or dark metal, definitely not painted with the tank. The towing hook just above it (right at the front under the cable end) also looks like plain dark metal or is perhaps black.

The track links I am a bit less clear about - they don't look thoroughly uniform in colour, but whether they are painted I can't be sure.... it might make sense considering how much of the side of the tank they cover.

Another interesting aspect of the paint on this tank, a G with Tiger steel rimmed wheels, which Jentz reckons was completed by MAN in late Sept 44, is that although on the face of it a hard edged finish, it is certainly spray painted without stencils, but very carefully applied at the factory. The patches are have a tight, close sprayed soft edge, not a hard line as you'd get with a stencil or a brush. Note lack of any of the dots characteristic of what is normally thought of as "ambush" camo. It looks like the wheels aren't camouflaged.

I suppose it is dark yellow, green and red brown - but which is which of the latter two, I'm not sure. One of them looks very dark.

Matt;

That cool specimen is one of the 20 or so "test Panther G" fitted with the new steel wheels - assembled by MAN in SEP 1944 and used during the B o B in DEC 1944. These steel-wheel kitties were a later mid-production G but not the late or "last" production, and most (maybe ALL) of these had the chinless earlier-model mantel.

These 20 were variably factory or post-factory painted without stencil or masking. From where I sit, this one, and its brothers, were clearly relatively close "soft-edge spray schemes" and look very different from those later G painted with the hard-edge stripes photographed in Poland or East Prussia in winter 1944/1945. There are several nice photos of a few of these taken by Americans in and around the Ardennes after the "bulge" was cleared.

It does indeed appear that the tools were NOT camo-sprayed.

Cheers!

Bob

Hard edged cammo was factory-applied, starting in September, 1944, when Zimmerit was discontinued. "Hard edged" was interpreted differently by different factories over time, and many schemes applied later were clearly applied freehand with a spray gun, rules or not. For a true hard edge, a mask of some sort (paper or canvas) would have to be applied to the surface before it was sprayed, and some late schemes show this was done, so just select a vehicle you like, and use your best judgement regarding how sharp the paint edges should be.

First of all, thanks so much for all the replies. It's great to get some clarity on a much loved subject.

Second, I should have stuck the wording 'Production' after Late for I was referring to this:



http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/dragon/dr6268.htm

Third... it probably falls right into the above mention discussion too.





Jeff