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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Damaged zimmerit
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 05:35 AM UTC
How easily is Zimmerit damaged? I did some looking through forums and I see contradictory info- I saw a comment that it damaged easily and another that said it was very hard/durable and anything short of being hit with a shell/shrapnel/bullet wouldn't damage it. Adding some worn, scraped off adds some character but I wanted to keep it realistic. Building a dragon tiger late from the s.Pz.Abt.510 "Kovno 1944" I haven't found any pictures,so I was planning on going with best guess. Last option here: http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i319/LeungKwokOn/Marco-PA-Forum-Pictures/DML%20Tiger%20I%20Late/DML-TigerI-Late-40.jpg
edmund
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United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 07:06 AM UTC
It's a paste applied then hand troweled , then cured by a blowtorch . So if it dried and not heated by the torch could that affect how hard it cures , then if it was field applied would probably look real crappy ? Are you doing the zimmerit or are you using the resin ones ?
jwest21
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 07:27 AM UTC
I am using Atak zimmerit
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 07:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It's a paste applied then hand troweled , then cured by a blowtorch . So if it dried and not heated by the torch could that affect how hard it cures , then if it was field applied would probably look real crappy ? Are you doing the zimmerit or are you using the resin ones ?



If the alcohol torch was not used to burn off the benzine thinner, a layer of Zimmerit took eight days to air dry. Thus, the torch was quite necessary, or the vehicle couldn't even be painted. I've only seen a half a dozen or so photos of vehicles that apparently had field-applied Zimmerit. There was no great demand for it, because magnetic mines were rarely used by anybody but the Germans themselves.
Zimmerit was made from zinc sulphide, barium sulphate, polyvinyl acetate glue, sawdust, and yellow ochre pigment. It was certainly harder than plaster. If it helps, US troops said it reminded them of linoleum.
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 08:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It's a paste applied then hand troweled , then cured by a blowtorch . So if it dried and not heated by the torch could that affect how hard it cures , then if it was field applied would probably look real crappy ? Are you doing the zimmerit or are you using the resin ones ?



If the alcohol torch was not used to burn off the benzine thinner, a layer of Zimmerit took eight days to air dry. Thus, the torch was quite necessary, or the vehicle couldn't even be painted. I've only seen a half a dozen or so photos of vehicles that apparently had field-applied Zimmerit. There was no great demand for it, because magnetic mines were rarely used by anybody but the Germans themselves.
Zimmerit was made from zinc sulphide, barium sulphate, polyvinyl acetate glue, sawdust, and yellow ochre pigment. It was certainly harder than plaster. If it helps, US troops said it reminded them of linoleum.


Sounds like it would be pretty durable, then. Since I wasn't planning on modeling a knocked out tank, I should probably keep the damage really minimal (maybe just bottom front of hull)
Molentik
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: May 22, 2012
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 09:01 AM UTC
Wouldn't the place it was applied count as well? I mean, factory applied zimm would be applied on a probably cleaner surface than field applied. I'm taking a guess that in the field getting the surface all nice and clean/dust free could be a problem. Just like it can be for our models and paint adherence.

Just speculating of course!
TDZepp
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Keski-Suomi, Finland
Joined: April 15, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 02:31 PM UTC
Factory would apply zimmerit on the base coat, so damaged section could show oxide red primer and/or steel.
When damaged it would crack and chuncks would be blown off, severity ofc depending on the impact force.
easyco69
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 03:13 PM UTC
6406 is the kit your using? Or is that the reference for zim you found? Thats a good kit. I tried Green putty before, dries hard as a rock..tried Tamiya stick on, don't like the look. Tried Tamiya normal putty...can spread thin..tends to eat the plastic underneath. Using putty you can sculpt in damage.I never used any PE or resin zim before so I have no clue. If your going the putty way, buy a zim tool with dif sizes. Some guys even use a heated screw driver to melt in the zim...never tried it.
Its kinda easy with putty if you always pay attention to your scale...do small sections at a time. Always have a photo of zim handy..doesn't have to be a tiger..just as long as the patterns the same. Pay close attention to around the gun mantle on the tiger, you will need a picture of that.
Wasn't zim more or less like concrete?
my 2.5 cents.
TDZepp
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Keski-Suomi, Finland
Joined: April 15, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 04:10 PM UTC
Wood putty(finest grain) is good for zimmerit, it holds to the plastic ok and damage is easy to do just poking and scratching it with tool of you choosing. I didnt roughen then surface so it could hold even better if done so.
Here is one picture of my tiger 2 build and first try of the zim. With proper tamiya etc zimmerit tool the finish would be better. For this I used diy tool thats not really that good, after the paint it looked good enough for this build.

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b636/1m4s0/Mobile%20Uploads/Tiger%202%20Tamiya%2035164/IMG_20150403_163351_zpsnssqqsvt.jpg
Molentik
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: May 22, 2012
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 07:38 PM UTC
For Zimm I like to use the super fine (white) Milliput. You can spread it very thin (keep in mind that in real life, the layer of Zimm was only 2,5 cm thick) and it is workable for around 2/3 hours. I found that other putties dried too fast to make corrections if you mess up.
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 07:50 PM UTC
Thanks guys. What I am trying to determine is whether damaging the zimmerit is realistic- does it get knocked off from hitting obstacles or does it take a shell impact to destroy it?
LikesTanks
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Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: May 07, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 08:42 PM UTC
The zimmerit on panzer iv fenders certainly took damage when they got bent. Whether this is relevant to the zimm on the body of a tiger is another matter.
AikinutPGH
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 25, 2015
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2015 - 12:01 AM UTC
Looking at my Ferdinands, Zimm was damaged by collisions with things, shell fragments, bullet impacts, wear and tear from equipment rubbing, (like the plugs for pistol ports dangling by chains). Crews boots and dragging supplies over it would wear it down also.

There are pictures that show primer uncovered, primer painted over where Zimm is missing and what looks like replaced Zimm (that does not match the pattern next to it)
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2015 - 02:42 AM UTC
Often wondered what a burst of .50 cal would do. A series of circular chips; or chunks of zim gone?
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2015 - 04:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Looking at my Ferdinands, Zimm was damaged by collisions with things, shell fragments, bullet impacts, wear and tear from equipment rubbing, (like the plugs for pistol ports dangling by chains). Crews boots and dragging supplies over it would wear it down also.

There are pictures that show primer uncovered, primer painted over where Zimm is missing and what looks like replaced Zimm (that does not match the pattern next to it)


Thanks. The boots, supplies, equipment wear and tear was what I was wondering about!
AikinutPGH
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 25, 2015
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2015 - 06:03 AM UTC
Just like the paint around the hatches will wear off faster that other spots, Zimm was hard, but not harder than concrete and those nails in the German boots would have their effect. dropping tools on the front of your Panther as you prepare to pull the transmission, might leave a scratch. The lamp post you clipped taking that turn on Kiev would show up.
TopSmith
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Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 08:07 AM UTC
I have done both the putty and the glue on zimm. The putty is easier than you think. Apply to a section then texture it and move on to a new section. I would practice on an old kit to build confidence. Try several different putties to see which you like to work with. I used the wrong end of an exacto blade and trimmed it down to the correct width to make my zimm pattern. Keep some pictures of a tank with zimm close by for the pattern.
Taeuss
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Manitoba, Canada
Joined: January 03, 2016
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Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 07:17 AM UTC
My uncle served with the Viking Panzer Division on the Eastern Front for about the last three years of the war and I remember talking to him about things like Zimmerit and battle damage. According to him it took something like a main gun hit or a burst of MG fire to make it slough off. He mentioned that one tank he saw (didn't remember what it was) had taken a glancing hit on one side of the turret and virtually all of the Zimmerit on that side fell off. Fifty cal hits would probably take off foot-square irregular-shaped pieces, but that would be any one's guess. Have fun and go with the knowledge that no one else really knows the answer either!
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