_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M983 Tractor (Trumpeter)
bulivyf
Vendor
REAL MODEL
Visit this Community
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,450 posts
Armorama: 2,409 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 05:00 PM UTC
Hi all,
After opening the box I was excited lots of detail.
I started building the frame, so that I can fit the engine of my production. I found that the frame Trumpeter is as bad as a simple Italeri. In front of the lack of cross beams, reinforcements under the front of the first and second axes and mount the radiator. Also missing front brake cylinders.
The engine is totally sci-fi. Lack of water and hydraulic pump. Pulley on the crankshaft, blower, fuel and oil filters ........
The cooler is huge and does not reflect reality.
Trumpeter really do think that this frame able to bear this vehicle?
I hope I can fix it.


bulivyf
Vendor
REAL MODEL
Visit this Community
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,450 posts
Armorama: 2,409 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 02:54 AM UTC
Small update
bulivyf
Vendor
REAL MODEL
Visit this Community
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: April 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,450 posts
Armorama: 2,409 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 04:49 PM UTC
Update is finished.




M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 05:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi all,
After opening the box I was excited lots of detail.
I started building the frame, so that I can fit the engine of my production. I found that the frame Trumpeter is as bad as a simple Italeri. In front of the lack of cross beams, reinforcements under the front of the first and second axes and mount the radiator. Also missing front brake cylinders.
The engine is totally sci-fi. Lack of water and hydraulic pump. Pulley on the crankshaft, blower, fuel and oil filters ........
The cooler is huge and does not reflect reality.
Trumpeter really do think that this frame able to bear this vehicle?
I hope I can fix it.




Maybe TRUMPETER rented DRAGON's BLACK PLAGUE CREW!!!

WHY is it that it always seems to be US vehicles that suffer from inaccuracies and inattention to details???
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 07:17 PM UTC
Great-looking update/detail set. I figured you would come through with one. Good job.


Quoted Text

WHY is it that it always seems to be US vehicles that suffer from inaccuracies and inattention to details???


Get over it. I'm sick of people whining every time there is a new release. No model is perfect. I'm sure German WWII and other subjects are just as inaccurate and lack details. It just means you actually have to use some modeling skills as opposed to just throwing together a kit. Why not be happy that there are a bunch of new kits coming out of previously unreleased subjects that give you good starting points? Also be glad there are great AM companies making sets that make it easier for you to achieve the level of details you want. Stop whining and go build some models.
jvazquez
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 26, 2006
KitMaker: 857 posts
Armorama: 811 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 07:37 PM UTC
Looks great Miroslav! Going to get me one shortly, even before I've gotten the tractor itself!
18Bravo
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 07:49 PM UTC
Miloslav,
Your upgrades look great! Of course, we've come to expect that from you.

As for "whining," I wouldn't call Dennis' statement that. He has a legitimate point. In this day and age, with the availability of the subjects as reference, there's just no excuse for these types of shortcomings. Unless you have no regard for the customer.
As seen in another thread, I have done a very thorough walkaround of this tractor. Trumpeter could have used it if they wished. (the original recipient apparently decided not to go with the project)
In the long run, adding those extra parts, while it may cost a tad more, would certainly pay off.
The reference to Dragon's Black Plague kits certainly will turn off some. As for me, if I decide to build one, at least I'll have the sense to use references at hand.
kamikaze
Visit this Community
Romania
Joined: October 22, 2005
KitMaker: 102 posts
Armorama: 60 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 08:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Great-looking update/detail set. I figured you would come through with one. Good job.


Quoted Text

WHY is it that it always seems to be US vehicles that suffer from inaccuracies and inattention to details???


Get over it. I'm sick of people whining every time there is a new release. No model is perfect. I'm sure German WWII and other subjects are just as inaccurate and lack details. It just means you actually have to use some modeling skills as opposed to just throwing together a kit. Why not be happy that there are a bunch of new kits coming out of previously unreleased subjects that give you good starting points? Also be glad there are great AM companies making sets that make it easier for you to achieve the level of details you want. Stop whining and go build some models.


Gino you are right, but this is true only if they would give me the models for free. Considering the huge amount of cash that some new kits cost, i believe we can whine. And all that AM is also not cheap. But indeed, we have a lot of new and unreleased before kits. Have a good day.
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 08:36 PM UTC
I guess it depends on your outlook on modeling. I am generally an optimist. I am glad I have the new kits as a starting points so I don't have to scratch-build them. I don't know nor care why the companies ended up molding the engine w/out proper details. It could be due to lack of references, lack of funds, lack of care; who knows. I can either fix the missing details myself or if I want to spend the extra money, I will get AM sets to help me out. Like I said, I am more happy to have the new kits than dwell on why it isn't super-detailed and has every bell and whistle, etc.... If you don't like them, don't buy them.

I would rather go build a model than complain about them.
skyshark
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: November 16, 2005
KitMaker: 703 posts
Armorama: 499 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 08:43 PM UTC
Be happy that's all wrong with yours. I got mine yesterday and the box was not crushed and the cab looked like someone sit it on a stove and it slumped sideways Contacted seller and he acted like I stepped on it. But not the case. I opened the box and took inventory and saw that. To say I'm pissed is an understatement.
Mongo13
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Joined: December 02, 2012
KitMaker: 130 posts
Armorama: 57 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 08:58 PM UTC
Could it possibly be they do not have the proper license to reproduce it as perfect as we all want? You can have all the reference materials you want but without permission they're useless unless you want to be sued.
young_sven
Visit this Community
Skåne, Sweden
Joined: May 14, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 09:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Get over it. I'm sick of people whining every time there is a new release. No model is perfect. I'm sure German WWII and other subjects are just as inaccurate and lack details. It just means you actually have to use some modeling skills as opposed to just throwing together a kit. Why not be happy that there are a bunch of new kits coming out of previously unreleased subjects that give you good starting points? Also be glad there are great AM companies making sets that make it easier for you to achieve the level of details you want. Stop whining and go build some models.


Well said Gino!!

Seems to be a plague of its own spreading on these forums: kit trashing. Heck of a lot of whining not so much building. It must be a miserable hobby for some.

Not sure when the concept of putting a little bit of work and effort into modelling went out the window, it seemed to start as soon as we finally started getting the kits we have been waiting for for decades.

We are spoiled indeed.

Milo, great work as always on your builds and upgrades! :-)

/Sven
Tankrider
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 10:40 PM UTC
Rob,
I know that I am preaching to the choir here BUT as most of us know, there is a trade off with what a company can really produce in a 1/35th scale model that will sell for a price that modelers will pay. In some modeler's point of view, the kit is good enough. I fully understand the research comment as I also took a crapload of pictures of the M983 tractor and will agree that the Trumpeter kit is sparse on the details... I will say that for those that want the ultimate in details, there are modeling brothers who will provide those details, if they want to pay the price of admission. So, what are folks out there willing to stomach: a kit that has a high level of detail with a high price tag or lower level of detail in a cheaper kit?? Perhaps one of your connections had the right idea with the M3A3 CFV kit...

Professor Q,
Those CGSC students must have riled you up today...

Ther is my contribution to armor modeling for today.

John
18Bravo
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 11:49 PM UTC
Well John, if I cared as much about this hobby as I used to, your comment (that you helped as well) would irritate me. They've had your input, I believe H-H's, and potentially mine as well. (I know some of my other references were passed to companies by third parties) With all that, they still chose to take shortcuts.
Don't get me wrong - this is not one of those "gotta haves" for me - I just don't find Dennis' comments as whining. Trust me, for whining and pettiness all one has to do is visit the "varsity" site.

MAD_DUCK
Visit this Community
Alabama, United States
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
Armorama: 406 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 01:21 AM UTC
I want to chime in a bit here, I got this kit on Monday and I started working on it last night and I'm really enjoying it. Yes, there is detail missing from the engine. Some of it I can add, some I really don't see the point since it won't be seen on the finished model.
Even with some flaws, I still believe its light years ahead of the old Italari M977 kit and I'm thankful that we have this kit now.
Another point I would like to make. When it comes to model companies, its the aftermarket guys that come here and interact with us on the boards. Lots of them are your friends here. So you can look at it this way, Mistakes or lesser detailed parts keeps people like Miloslav in business. And we want or friends to have work so we can buy their parts to add to our own models.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 07:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Great-looking update/detail set. I figured you would come through with one. Good job.


Quoted Text

WHY is it that it always seems to be US vehicles that suffer from inaccuracies and inattention to details???


Get over it. I'm sick of people whining every time there is a new release. No model is perfect. I'm sure German WWII and other subjects are just as inaccurate and lack details. It just means you actually have to use some modeling skills as opposed to just throwing together a kit. Why not be happy that there are a bunch of new kits coming out of previously unreleased subjects that give you good starting points? Also be glad there are great AM companies making sets that make it easier for you to achieve the level of details you want. Stop whining and go build some models.


Wait a second! It's OK when there are guys picking a DRAGON TIGER I to death with "Oh they missed a bolt here, or they got the Driver's Dash Light wrong" or some other nit picking thing. What about all the negative comments from other modellers on this site that absolutely DESTROYED DRAGON's BLACK PLAGUE M103 and M6 kits? THAT's OK too, I suppose...

If you read some of my other posts, you'll see that I've mentioned that I CORRECT any one of my kits' faults by using my own skills and/or ingenuity. I don't spend my time whining, and I actually DO build my models. DO YOU?

In 55-plus years of model-building, and that entails buiding dozens of HO brass Steam Locomotives, (talk about using your scratch-building skills), 1/24-1/25 Classic automobiles, literally HUNDREDS of 1/48 aircraft, 1/350 ships, scores of 1/35 thru 120mm figurines and quite a number of 1/35 AFVs and Soft-skins, I think that I can safely say that I know the difference between a very well executed DRAGON German Pz.III and a mediocre BLACK PLAGUE US M106 or M6. Many modellers on this site have taken issue with DRAGON's US/Allied M4-series Mediums, M2 thru M16 Half-tracks and other US/Allied kits.

I fix 'em. So, so much for whining...
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 08:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Wait a second! It's OK when there are guys picking a DRAGON TIGER I to death with "Oh they missed a bolt here, or they got the Driver's Dash Light wrong" or some other nit picking thing. What about all the negative comments from other modellers on this site that absolutely DESTROYED DRAGON's BLACK PLAGUE M103 and M6 kits? THAT's OK too, I suppose...


Nope, I'm sick of hearing about them being trash too.

No real offense against you in particular, I'm just sick of hearing people complain about how bad every new release is. You just happened to be the one who posted this time.

And yes, I build lots of models, usually a conversion or other major changes/corrections as well. Just check my posts if you want to as well.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 08:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Wait a second! It's OK when there are guys picking a DRAGON TIGER I to death with "Oh they missed a bolt here, or they got the Driver's Dash Light wrong" or some other nit picking thing. What about all the negative comments from other modellers on this site that absolutely DESTROYED DRAGON's BLACK PLAGUE M103 and M6 kits? THAT's OK too, I suppose...


Nope, I'm sick of hearing about them being trash too.

No real offense against you in particular, I'm just sick of hearing people complain about how bad every new release is. You just happened to be the one who posted this time.

And yes, I build lots of models, usually a conversion or other major changes/corrections as well. Just check my posts if you want to as well.


I have, and you do SOME GREAT STUFF!!!

I just question the inattention to detail when it comes to US/Allied stuff- Look how many Tiger Is, Pz.IIIs and Sd.Kfz.10s, that DRAGON have done and for a while, they were ACTUALLY improving these kits. Not so their newer US/Allied subjects. Look at the Exodus of Sherman modellers from DRAGON's M4 kits to ASUKA/TASCA's- but DRAGON doesn't seem to want to correct any of the US/Allied kits' flaws...

DRAGON seems to be cutting us short with their re-releases of older kits, as well- "DS Tracks" are being substituted for "Magic Tracks" which are entirely more appropriate for WWII German vehicles, no more Clear Plastic Lenses, Metal Barrels and minimal PE sets are being foisted upon us, but yet these "NEW!!!" kits are more EXPENSIVE! What the..?

I don't like what's going on, but as I've said in other blogs,

"Get Used to It!"

PS- We need to get back "ON SUBJECT"
Armorsmith
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 09, 2015
KitMaker: 1,063 posts
Armorama: 1,000 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 09:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Great-looking update/detail set. I figured you would come through with one. Good job.


Quoted Text

WHY is it that it always seems to be US vehicles that suffer from inaccuracies and inattention to details???


Get over it. I'm sick of people whining every time there is a new release. No model is perfect. I'm sure German WWII and other subjects are just as inaccurate and lack details. It just means you actually have to use some modeling skills as opposed to just throwing together a kit. Why not be happy that there are a bunch of new kits coming out of previously unreleased subjects that give you good starting points? Also be glad there are great AM companies making sets that make it easier for you to achieve the level of details you want. Stop whining and go build some models.


I'm with you 100% on this. I began armor modeling back in the early 70s with the Shep Paine Monogram kits and then Tamiya when they hit the scene. What a thrill it was that we were finally getting some nice German armor kits. On the Mark was about the only PE available and nobody had ever heard of resin. Sure we knew the kits were inaccurate and lacking certain details but we dealt with it and in doing so learned many new skills and techniques along the way. Today I am absolutely thrilled with the sheer quantity and variety of new releases, not to mention the vastly increased quality. These guys that whine and complain, would they be willing to shell out the $$$ it would cost to buy a 100% accurate kit if that were possible? These companies are in business to make money not to produce kits that meet the needs of those with modeling OCD. I will echo what you said, be happy with what you have, stop whining and go build some models.
 _GOTOTOP