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FEATURE
Landkreuzer P1000 Ratte
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 443 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 08:16 PM UTC
Andras Donaszi reviews and builds a very interesting Takom release in 1/144th scale.
Link to Item
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Link to Item
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
bprice1974
#436
Joined: August 10, 2014
KitMaker: 196 posts
Armorama: 182 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 12:41 AM UTC
Nice work, I had one and sold it because I was not sure what to do with it exactly and I also have a lot of other kits to complete. After seeing this, I kind of regret my decision. Will you be adding this kit to some kind of diorama? Thanks for sharing your work and review of this kit.
repynot
Joined: July 19, 2012
KitMaker: 194 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 01:01 AM UTC
Spot a target from 30-40 miles?
spongya
Associate Editor
Joined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 01:12 AM UTC
Well, why not? I mean if they build a 1000 ton landship, we might as well expect them to be able to, don't we? (I'm not even sure what would the actual target be. Obviously not individual tanks; perhaps entire frontlines could be shelled, or cities...? But then again: if you want to kill a lot of people, there are more sane, and less expensive methods available. Like bombers.)
Brent, thank you. It's HUGE. I don't know where I'm going to put it -I live in London, and sharing flat, so a diorama (for now at least) is out of question
(I'd go well with my 1/144 Dora gun which is waiting to be built...)
Brent, thank you. It's HUGE. I don't know where I'm going to put it -I live in London, and sharing flat, so a diorama (for now at least) is out of question
(I'd go well with my 1/144 Dora gun which is waiting to be built...)
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 01:27 AM UTC
Wondering if Takom didn't fudge some dimensions. The turret was to be the type from Scharnhorst class battlecruisers, and Graf Spee class "pocket battleships". They were triple-barrel 11" gun turrets - the center gun was to be removed and the opening plated over. Doubt that Krupp would produce special turrets as by 1944 they were available from the de-commissioned warships, and some were already being used in Atlantik-Wall defenses. On Takom's model there doesn't seem to be enough space for a center gun.
Where is the access hatch? Was there to be an accommodation ladder like with ships? Or access through a belly hatch? Or an elevator? Or private helicopter? There's room for a heli-pad on the turret roof!
Interesting, and amusing kit, nonetheless. Must be as big as a 1/35 Maus!
Where is the access hatch? Was there to be an accommodation ladder like with ships? Or access through a belly hatch? Or an elevator? Or private helicopter? There's room for a heli-pad on the turret roof!
Interesting, and amusing kit, nonetheless. Must be as big as a 1/35 Maus!
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 02:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Spot a target from 30-40 miles?
With a gun THAT big, you just aim at map co-ordinates! A near-miss will still do the job...
spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 03:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Wondering if Takom didn't fudge some dimensions. The turret was to be the type from Scharnhorst class battlecruisers, and Graf Spee class "pocket battleships". They were triple-barrel 11" gun turrets - the center gun was to be removed and the opening plated over. Doubt that Krupp would produce special turrets as by 1944 they were available from the de-commissioned warships, and some were already being used in Atlantik-Wall defenses. On Takom's model there doesn't seem to be enough space for a center gun.
Where is the access hatch? Was there to be an accommodation ladder like with ships? Or access through a belly hatch? Or an elevator? Or private helicopter? There's room for a heli-pad on the turret roof!
Interesting, and amusing kit, nonetheless. Must be as big as a 1/35 Maus!
Well, looking at photos of actual turrets, and the model, you can see that it's feasible to fit in a third gun. There are only two armored vision ports on the original turret, and a third tube would fit in the middle. Just about. If I can find some dimensions of the actual turret, I'll do some calculations, but so far I've not been able to. (I don't have books on ships, regretfully, and could not find these values online.)
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 03:27 PM UTC
You could find the size of the 28cm Scharnhorst Turm here:
http://www.schlachtschiff.com/contend/schiffe/schlachtkreuzer/scharnhorst/technik/technik_02.htm
With a turret weight of 750 tons, not much weight could be left for the hull??
http://www.schlachtschiff.com/contend/schiffe/schlachtkreuzer/scharnhorst/technik/technik_02.htm
With a turret weight of 750 tons, not much weight could be left for the hull??
spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 03:55 PM UTC
Great, thanks (Unfortunately the non-English, non-Hungarian parts of the internet are closed to me...)
I'll do some measurements, and see where we get.
(Unfortunately the non-English, non-Hungarian parts of the internet are closed to me...)I'll do some measurements, and see where we get.
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 04:08 PM UTC
I have to say this kit has absolutely zero interest for me, but I have had a great time reading your review. Very good job!
Thanks for making me smile on Monday
Thanks for making me smile on Monday
spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 06:27 PM UTC
You are welcome (The jokes were writing themselves with a subject like this)
BobSolo
Joined: August 30, 2014
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 112 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2015 - 01:44 AM UTC
Awesome! I think the idea makes total sense.. until you think about it 
If only they had nuclear power and a 250mph top speed theyd have took Russia in a day! I can imagine 10 of these linked together for a land battleship with even bigger guns higher up at the back they could have shelled Moscow from Berlin. Adding a short aircraft carrier landing strip for the UFO's VTOL would have given them air support and protection from bombers..
It gives a comical but terrifying insight into just how crazy the nazis were
If only they had nuclear power and a 250mph top speed theyd have took Russia in a day! I can imagine 10 of these linked together for a land battleship with even bigger guns higher up at the back they could have shelled Moscow from Berlin. Adding a short aircraft carrier landing strip for the UFO's VTOL would have given them air support and protection from bombers.. It gives a comical but terrifying insight into just how crazy the nazis were
billflorig
Joined: January 20, 2015
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 146 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2015 - 02:31 AM UTC
I love this post and am interested in getting the kit....the P1000 was always hinted at in so many tank books from the 60-70s, Eric Groves' coming to mind as he discussed the bigger and heavier German tanks and projects and their proclivity towards bigger and more powerful yet infinitely more complex machines. Monuments to failure I think he said. Fascinating subject to say the least. imagine the support machinery and facility required to do depot level maintenance on this beast! Probably more like a blimp hangar and battleship dry dock!
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2015 - 07:26 AM UTC
Awesome!!... 
...Bigger is better!!...how you can change on the field a track to such a monster?...and river crossing?...probably the idea is born after a looong nigth during the Oktober fest!... 
...Bigger is better!!...how you can change on the field a track to such a monster?...and river crossing?...probably the idea is born after a looong nigth during the Oktober fest!... spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Monday, November 09, 2015 - 01:13 PM UTC
Dear Hans,
I could not find the actual sizes on the webpage (using google translate); it mostly describes the guns.
The turret's dimensions are:
About 7.5cm wide at the range finders
6.5cm wide at the ladders
about 8.2cm long between the guns
the guns are 7cm long (from the base that is still visible)
These are not precise measurements, but should be enough to determine if the turret is the right size or not.
I could not find the actual sizes on the webpage (using google translate); it mostly describes the guns.
The turret's dimensions are:
About 7.5cm wide at the range finders
6.5cm wide at the ladders
about 8.2cm long between the guns
the guns are 7cm long (from the base that is still visible)
These are not precise measurements, but should be enough to determine if the turret is the right size or not.
Removed by original poster on 11/10/15 - 16:04:58 (GMT).
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 12:05 PM UTC
Hi Andras,
the text says that the distance between the barrels -measuring center to center- was 2,75 m. Maybe this information should be enough to the the size of the turret?
Cheers
Hans-Hermann
the text says that the distance between the barrels -measuring center to center- was 2,75 m. Maybe this information should be enough to the the size of the turret?
Cheers
Hans-Hermann
spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 02:18 PM UTC
Hi Hans,
I'll measure the distance between the barrels when I get home, and see what comes out of it... The problem is I don't think it's going to be very accurate without knowing the distance between the two outside barrels on the original turret.
I'll measure the distance between the barrels when I get home, and see what comes out of it... The problem is I don't think it's going to be very accurate without knowing the distance between the two outside barrels on the original turret.
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 04:51 PM UTC
2x 2,75m = 5,5m?
spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 07:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
2x 2,75m = 5,5m?
PLus the size of the third gun. (I can add, you know
) But that should be the same as the other two, so we'll see.spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 01:02 AM UTC
Yup, you were right. The distance between the two guns come out about 4.3 m. (2.8cm). This is not nearly enough to fit a third into the middle.
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 03:05 AM UTC
Maybe the cut the turret in two halves and removed a piece to save weight???
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 05:13 AM UTC
Pretty sure the original plan was simply to remove the center gun and plate over the opening. Cutting the turret in two, removing a section, then welding the halves together again would compromise the armor, wouldn't it? Not to mention that the turret ring would no longer be a perfect circle and rotation would be impossible!
spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 07:38 PM UTC
I don't think building a 1000 ton vehicle such rational arguments would actually mean anything
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