Hello,

I am trying to figure out what 105mm howitzer was used in Vietnam on firebases. Also who makes it would be a very helpful also.

I appreciate any help.

You've really got two options. The USMC coninued to use the M101 at least until 1991 when I got discharged.

In 1966 the Army started getting the m102.

Both were made by Rock Island Arsenal.

Best Wishes,

Gary

As stated by Gary, the M102A1 was initially used by both the US Army and throughout by the USMC. The best kit of it is by AFV Club.



AFV Club also makes a very nice M102. It can be built as either a Vietnam piece or a more modern one in airborne configuration.

Ace and Toxso have 1/72 kits.

the good old M101 is the most common by far. Have heard there were a few Korean War vintage pieces over there, but never saw one. Airborne arty units pretty used nothing but the new M102 howitzer. Both had advantages and some disadvantages of course. The one serious advantage the M102 had was high angle fire in the mountains.

If your building a 105 that actually existed, then do a little research. Many folks made small mods to them to suit their needs. It was not uncommon to see the older gun without shields. (I've also seen 155mm Howitzers without them). It was really uncommon to catch one being towed on the road, but did happen.

If your thinking diorama, it was most common to see a battery broken up into two three gun batteries with two or three 81mm mortars. Have seen a two gun battery a couple times, but wasn't really effective (pattern). Also it was typical to see one gun with the barrel in a high quadrant to shoot deep into valleys and illumination.

gary

Crew? Don't see any indication whether it comes with one or not.

Neither AFV Club kit comes with a crew. Hobby Fan has a good Vietnam-era artillery crew though.

Gino, could they be Marines or just GIs?

You could probably pass the off as Jarheads.

USMC and US Army did wear different flak vests though.

USMC M1955 Flak Vest


US Army M69 Flak Vest

Thanks everyone. I knew I would get great information an knowledge from some wonderful people. That information will go a long way on helping me in many levels.

On top an M110 or an M107 a flak jacket is OK (remember the jacket is Army no matter where). In an M109 I'd say no! But between the trails of a howitzer a flak jacket is just stupid, and an accident looking for a place to happen. Accidents between the trails are usually fatal unless you drop a round on your big toe. A hit from the breech will turn you to mush. Loose shirts and flak jackets were forbidden for the most part. I've shot in my underwear and a tee shirt many times. Specially in the rain. Been some talk about Marines and that would of course be I-Corp. Keep in mind that every Arty unit in I Corp (even 101st and 1st Air Cav) came under control of the Americal Div. Artillery. No matter what branch of service you were in. They set up the S.O.P.'s, and the flak jacket issue was from Div. Arty in mid 1967 when a guy was decapitated.

forget about what you read in some manual about arty crews in Vietnam. If you had a seven man crew in a 155, you had a full crew (most I ever saw was eight men). Five and six were very common. Normally there's a section chief, but I shot the first eight months without one! A contact mission would often bring the XO or the chief of smoke over to verify you did it right. 105's had any where from five to six men, but have seen several four man crews. A howitzer lives and dies by their loader and AG. The loader sets everything up for the AG, and they must be very close to each other to make it go well. Rest just falls in place.
gary

Thanks, Gino and Gary. I'm thinking of doing a fire base at Khe Sanh with some redlegs sending off rounds and some other Gyereens sitting around doing idle soldier stuff.

Hello,

I seen a lot of stuff on ebay that recreates lots of stuff from Vietnam bases, if I had the skills a nice 1/35 Khe Sanh full base would be awesome. I got a idea for a small firebase with some of that Vietnam base stuff.

I don't remember seeing any photos of SPG's at Khe Sanh, but sure as I say that a photo will appear. I know there were at least two batteries of 155's there and probably even more 105's. The M107's were out by the Rockpile and Camp Carrol. Don't remember seeing any M110's. The M110/M107's were all Army units assigned to Marine units. My first set of orders were for a unit at the Rockpile in December 67.

You also might want to a search for LZ Ripcord. A real tough place to be stuck at. Mostly M114's there, but there's at least a hundred spots to pick from up that way. Just remember that once you got past the road's end the towed gun was king.
gary

keep in mind that in Vietnam the only consistent thing about fire bases was that there was no consistency. Some of them were elaborate, and many were bare bones. M102's didn't need much of anything fancy (just a flat area of hard earth), but even then they usually built a wall around the parapet (I've seen everything that could be built at one time or another). Bunkers have been built from everything from metal culverts to nice well built bunkers. M101's and their 155mm cousins needed a much more elaborate setup. There you have the spades taking the recoil to a series of oak logs (about 16" square) dug into the ground. You still have the hard flat place in the middle. Ammo and powder bunkers are kind of what you can build on your own.

A guy on another board asked me a few years back how many rounds we stocked at each gun. I gave him a rough list. He couldn't believe it, and asked how long did that stash last. I told him anywhere from eight hours to four days. Typically 48 hours, but we re-supplied every morning rain or shine. I've shot 500 rounds in about fourteen hours. A 105 might do 700 rounds if they had that much ammo per tube.
When you get involved in one of those all night and all day marathons; everybody gets involved. Even by standers. I've seen Majors and other Officers hump ammo like privates.

gary

UPDATE: the Hobby Fan artillery crew is no longer available.

Many moons ago, ADV/Azimut had released a M102 crew that is still listed as "available" on Azimut website but we all know this doesn't mean you'll ever receive it if you order it from them...



H.P.

Hi;

"Yes" we did have Two SPG at Khe Sanh and they were Sited close too the Road that led into the Base. And they were used the most as Counter Battery Fire against Klorox on the other side of the River in Loas, as the NVA liked too use the Top of the Plateau to Launce 122mm Rockets at the Base. And it was quite A Show while I was sitting atop Hill 881 and watching the 122mm going one way hearing the 155s going the other way !!!!!

Oh Sorry; I Got carried away with Myself; MIKE.

The U.S. 155's didn't quite have the range to hit the area in front of the caves under the Co Roc ridge, but the Russian 152's did have the range to hit us. (There's roughly a mile difference). Plus the 175 guns just were not all that accurate at extreme range. Doubt the NVA planned it that way, and just kinda lucked out. I do know that they gave a serious consideration to using the charge eight on the 155's, but it never happened. The charge eight would have reached the Co Roc caves with a half mile to spare. In the end it was SOG guys and Rangers that put the 152's out of business.

Counter battery fire can be interesting, and can be silly dangerous. I've done it at less than 3000 yards while peeing my pants. (122 howitzers and not rockets). The craziest I ever shot (more than once by the way)was WP with one second on the fuse and the lowest charge; green bag. Also did HE the same way. Rounds go off right in front of you, but also gets the other guy's undivided attention. The real issue was the folks in D.C. refusing to let us have the bee hive round. A 155 bee hive will almost clear a foot ball field!
gary