Afrika Korps Uniform Colours - Lots of conflicting colours - what are your suggestions! I'm seeing olive greens on re-enactors and lots of shady brown shades on profile illustrations.
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Afrika Korps Uniform Colours
flightsim
Joined: February 25, 2009
KitMaker: 15 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 12:08 AM UTC
smydi01
Joined: October 14, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 12:57 AM UTC
Hi Simon,
Both would be correct have a look at
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewforum.php?id=4
It may help
Both would be correct have a look at
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewforum.php?id=4
It may help
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 04:35 AM UTC
Cool site Wayne ! Thank you for sharing !
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 08:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Afrika Korps Uniform Colours - Lots of conflicting colours - what are your suggestions! I'm seeing olive greens on re-enactors and lots of shady brown shades on profile illustrations.
It would appear that most uniforms when issued were a light green, possibly the Reed Green shade used on cotton fatigue uniforms. However, harsh sunlight and sweat soon bleached the cloth to various chalky tan shades. At least some Luftwaffe uniforms seem to have been tan to start with, but faded the same way.
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 12:30 PM UTC
There is also the factor of unsophisticated laundry facilities as well as the desire of recently arrived individuals to look a bit less as though they were just that. Caps in particular were often subject to treatment to give a sun-bleached appearance of veterans.
flightsim
Joined: February 25, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 09:53 PM UTC
Thanks guys - The Afrika Korps website is an excellent resource - thanks
bairdlander
Joined: May 16, 2007
KitMaker: 53 posts
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KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 51 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 09:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Can you provide link to this info please?the desire of recently arrived individuals to look a bit less as though they were just that. Caps in particular were often subject to treatment to give a sun-bleached appearance of veterans.
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 12:51 PM UTC
Regrettably not. It was in a book, not on a website (I know, who owns books these days?). I forget the name of the book (and it's in my storage unit) but it covered militaria of the DAK and contained sufficient obscure information for me to regard it as fairly authorative; for example, meat rations were often supplied from Italian stocks in tins marked 'AM' for Administrazione Milititare. The contents were apparently pretty grim and 'AM' was therefore held by the Germans to stand for 'Alter Maul' or 'Alter Mann' (old mule or old man).
While such information is of no use to us as modellers, it is the sort of thing that tells me that the author knows his subject rather than rehashing old work.
While such information is of no use to us as modellers, it is the sort of thing that tells me that the author knows his subject rather than rehashing old work.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 07:59 PM UTC
The book Robert is referring to is "Rommels Army in Afrika" by Dal McGuirk, first published in England in 1987 by Stanley Paul publishers, then in 1993 in the US by Motorbooks. I believe it's now out of print. In the book Mr. McGuirk does an excellent job of showing what it was like to be in the Afrika Korps, including actual color photographs of uniforms and equipment. The colors of uniforms varied considerably by branch, manufacturer, and rank, but in general, they ranged from tan to light brown to light pea green, and even some early feldgrau, depending on the time, location and service branch. Officer's equipment/uniforms were often a higher quality. And yes, Dal McGuirk does indicate that uniform items like caps were sometimes left to fade or bleached to give them a more whitewashed look. And the rations were referred to as "old man" or "old mule" rations on page 29 of the book.
As to the "unsophistication of laundry facilities" I can personally attest to that effect. While I was stationed in Korea in 1987, our "awjima" (a house lady hired to keep our 8 man officer barracks clean and wash uniforms) had access to a modern washer and dryer, but during the summer months preferred to join the other awjima's on the rocks of a local stream to wash our uniforms. By the end of the summer my uniforms were pretty worn and faded from the hard water and rock beating treatments.
VR Russ
As to the "unsophistication of laundry facilities" I can personally attest to that effect. While I was stationed in Korea in 1987, our "awjima" (a house lady hired to keep our 8 man officer barracks clean and wash uniforms) had access to a modern washer and dryer, but during the summer months preferred to join the other awjima's on the rocks of a local stream to wash our uniforms. By the end of the summer my uniforms were pretty worn and faded from the hard water and rock beating treatments.
VR Russ
tatbaqui
News Writer
#040
Joined: May 06, 2007
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 07:33 AM UTC
Is it true that caps were washed / treated with gasoline to get that bleached look? 
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 08:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Is it true that caps were washed / treated with gasoline to get that bleached look?
McGuirk does not mention gasoline when addressing the bleaching of the "Afrikamutze" or the peaked field cap, and it's doubtful that gasoline would have been used since supplies were always short, and the lingering smell would have been bad. On page 140 of the book, he definitely says a common trick new arrivals in North Africa would use was to bleach thier hats with "anti-gas" tablets dissolved in water so as not to stand out, since they would be issued the standard brown caps. As a former NBC officer, I take the "anti-gas" tablets to be a form of solid chlorine, which was a standard decontaminate during WWII and found in German anti-gas kits.
VR Russ
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 09:43 AM UTC
Some errata to my last two posts on the uniforms and AM rations-- the reference to AM rations in McGuirks book actually appears on several pages. The first mention of "AM" is on page 19 not 29 as I indicated earlier. Additionally, the "AM" rations has an entire page reference later, with several stories related, including a documented case were Rommel himself calls the rations "old man" but a soldier jokes with him and calls them "old mule" rations. This is really a fascinating book, with many color photos of original DAK uniforms and equipment, and sections on things such as death and burials to medical care and signals, passbooks and rules for soldiers in Africa--all of it comes from original sources or first person descriptions, including DAK field orders and diaries of individual soldiers. I recommend it highly for anyone interested in the DAK, if you can find a copy. It really cuts though guessing and innaccuracies often found on line.
VR Russ
VR Russ
avenue
Joined: May 25, 2013
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 09:54 AM UTC
I used field gray and desert yellow for the shirt.
middlestone (or desert yellow)mixed with dark yellow for rest.
middlestone (or desert yellow)mixed with dark yellow for rest.
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 10:11 AM UTC
Just got a used copy off Amazon. $7.49 priority shipped.
Pick one up while they're still cheap.
Pick one up while they're still cheap.
tatbaqui
News Writer#040
Joined: May 06, 2007
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 10:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIs it true that caps were washed / treated with gasoline to get that bleached look?
McGuirk does not mention gasoline when addressing the bleaching of the "Afrikamutze" or the peaked field cap, and it's doubtful that gasoline would have been used since supplies were always short, and the lingering smell would have been bad. On page 140 of the book, he definitely says a common trick new arrivals in North Africa would use was to bleach thier hats with "anti-gas" tablets dissolved in water so as not to stand out, since they would be issued the standard brown caps. As a former NBC officer, I take the "anti-gas" tablets to be a form of solid chlorine, which was a standard decontaminate during WWII and found in German anti-gas kits.
VR Russ
"Anti-gas tablets" -- that's where I got lost in the translation
Thanks Russ! TatRLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 09:09 PM UTC
Yes, that sounds like the offending tome. I snapped it up at a model show somewhere and it is very useful. Thanks for all the additional info.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 09:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes, that sounds like the offending tome. I snapped it up at a model show somewhere and it is very useful. Thanks for all the additional info.
I figured that was it, the discussion around rations and bleaching of the hats was just to similar to be in a different book. I've purchased and seen a lot of DAK books over the years (I'm not really a WWII German Army fan, but Actions in N. Africa and the Middle East have always intrigued me). This one book is unique in that it goes into great detail about the individual DAK soldier and his equipment and life. Coupled with the first person accounts, color photos of actual uniforms, equipment and documents, makes it invaluable. There have been later DAK books, but not like this. It should be in every armor modelers library if they are remotely interested in the DAK.
VR Russ
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 12:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just got a used copy off Amazon. $7.49 priority shipped.
Pick one up while they're still cheap.
Sounded like a great refrence,just ordered one myself
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 12:49 AM UTC
Great minds, man. Great minds.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 02:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextJust got a used copy off Amazon. $7.49 priority shipped.
Pick one up while they're still cheap.
Sounded like a great refrence,just ordered one myself
I don't exactly recall how much I paid for mine, but picked it up about ten years ago in a store called "Half Price Books" which is a chain here in the Northwest specializing in used/publisher overstock books. I think mine cost about $8.00, and it's worth every penny. I find the Internet is great for doing what we are doing right now-- comparing notes on specific subjects (like DAK uniform colors) but it's also rife with misinformation. If accuracy is being sought, sources are not often given on-line (I'm guilty of this at times myself). That's why a book with an index and bibliography is sometimes handy. Congratulations to those of you who've been able to find the book, I think you'll enjoy it and find it a great reference book for modeling the DAK. I do need to warn others that if you are looking for photos and drawings of specific vehicles and vehicle information, you won't find it in this book, this is strictly a detailed book about DAK soldiers and uniforms, and life in N. Africa with a little strategic and tactical information thrown in.
VR Russ
joes
Joined: September 19, 2006
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 03:08 AM UTC
http://www.coloradominiatures.com/infovallejopaints.aspx#top[/url]
Try this one as one reference, I found it while painting some afrika Corp figures for one of my dips that I am working on
Try this one as one reference, I found it while painting some afrika Corp figures for one of my dips that I am working on
joes
Joined: September 19, 2006
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 03:11 AM UTC
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=23796
Also try this one
Also try this one
tatbaqui
News Writer#040
Joined: May 06, 2007
KitMaker: 2,713 posts
Armorama: 2,451 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 04:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextJust got a used copy off Amazon. $7.49 priority shipped.
Pick one up while they're still cheap.
Sounded like a great refrence,just ordered one myself
I don't exactly recall how much I paid for mine, but picked it up about ten years ago in a store called "Half Price Books" which is a chain here in the Northwest specializing in used/publisher overstock books. I think mine cost about $8.00, and it's worth every penny. I find the Internet is great for doing what we are doing right now-- comparing notes on specific subjects (like DAK uniform colors) but it's also rife with misinformation. If accuracy is being sought, sources are not often given on-line (I'm guilty of this at times myself). That's why a book with an index and bibliography is sometimes handy. Congratulations to those of you who've been able to find the book, I think you'll enjoy it and find it a great reference book for modeling the DAK. I do need to warn others that if you are looking for photos and drawings of specific vehicles and vehicle information, you won't find it in this book, this is strictly a detailed book about DAK soldiers and uniforms, and life in N. Africa with a little strategic and tactical information thrown in.
VR Russ
Glad to have stumbled on this thread -- ordered one as well
When I got the order confirmation, out comes a another title from the same author -- Afrikakorps Self Portrait. The description states it's a collection of about 300 B&W photos -- is it a good buy as well?
Cheers,
Tat
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 08:22 AM UTC
Glad to have stumbled on this thread -- ordered one as well
When I got the order confirmation, out comes a another title from the same author -- Afrikakorps Self Portrait. The description states it's a collection of about 300 B&W photos -- is it a good buy as well?[/quote]
Tat, A "good buy" depends on how expensive it is, and if it's of interest to the purchaser. I've never seen the "Self Portrait" book, but in the preface of "Rommel's Army in Africa" McGuirk mentions he has a large collection of unpublished photos himself, and borrowed many others from folks who were there, namely Australian, NZ and other commonwealth soldiers who were there and brought captured photos home, or from DAK survivors who managed to get the photos home during and after the war. He also enlisted the aid of the former DAK Verband VP, among others to obtain unpublished photos. The endpapers say he has over 3,000 unpublished photos, and he admits many were shot by amateur photographers. I suspect the "Self Portrait" book is a compilation of the best of those photos.
VR, Russ
When I got the order confirmation, out comes a another title from the same author -- Afrikakorps Self Portrait. The description states it's a collection of about 300 B&W photos -- is it a good buy as well?[/quote]
Tat, A "good buy" depends on how expensive it is, and if it's of interest to the purchaser. I've never seen the "Self Portrait" book, but in the preface of "Rommel's Army in Africa" McGuirk mentions he has a large collection of unpublished photos himself, and borrowed many others from folks who were there, namely Australian, NZ and other commonwealth soldiers who were there and brought captured photos home, or from DAK survivors who managed to get the photos home during and after the war. He also enlisted the aid of the former DAK Verband VP, among others to obtain unpublished photos. The endpapers say he has over 3,000 unpublished photos, and he admits many were shot by amateur photographers. I suspect the "Self Portrait" book is a compilation of the best of those photos.
VR, Russ
tatbaqui
News Writer#040
Joined: May 06, 2007
KitMaker: 2,713 posts
Armorama: 2,451 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 07:16 AM UTC
Thanks Russ. Used copies go between US$10-16, so it seems to be of good value. May as well get one Cheers, Tat
Cheers, Tat
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