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Academy M60A2 vs Dragon M60A2 ? Differences?
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2016 - 03:17 AM UTC
I got mine today Gary is correct. It is indeed suffering from a terminal case of Black Plague. I don't have actual measurements, so I compared the hull to the AFV club hull and the turret to the Adler turret, for better or worse. The Dragon hull nose is 3mm too short, the turret is 2mm short, the whole hull is about 8mm too short. The turret looks off. The results make everything look stubby. Gary notes the M48 armored doors are used, which is wrong. I'll leave it to the experts to get more specific, but this kit seems more like their M103 kits and less like the M48 kits.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2016 - 05:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I got mine today Gary is correct. It is indeed suffering from a terminal case of Black Plague. I don't have actual measurements, so I compared the hull to the AFV club hull and the turret to the Adler turret, for better or worse. The Dragon hull nose is 3mm too short, the turret is 2mm short, the whole hull is about 8mm too short. The turret looks off. The results make everything look stubby. Gary notes the M48 armored doors are used, which is wrong. I'll leave it to the experts to get more specific, but this kit seems more like their M103 kits and less like the M48 kits.
THAT'S why I'm going to wait for the AFV CLUB -A2, rather than shoot the works with my 2 ancient TAMIYA kits, or buying either the ACADEMY or DRAGON -A2s. I'm not 8 years old and impatient for the latest "new toy"...
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
Armorama: 1,294 posts
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2016 - 11:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
THAT'S why I'm going to wait for the AFV CLUB -A2, rather than shoot the works with my 2 ancient TAMIYA kits, or buying either the ACADEMY or DRAGON -A2s. I'm not 8 years old and impatient for the latest "new toy"...
Right. However, in case AFV does not produce the kit or it is difficult to wait a while, Academy seems to be a better choice. Plus, the original poster, Lou, asked about which of the two kits is better, and the answer is the Academy M60A2. Have fun!
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2016 - 12:05 AM UTC
What about the lower hull and running gear? How does Dragon compare in that aspect? From what I've heard that area in the Academy is mostly outdated 2nd millennium parts.
SgtSnake
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 41 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2016 - 02:50 AM UTC
The first M60A1 I was assigned to had the older side opening air boxes, the new RISE model we got had the top opening boxes. The weird looking lumps o' plastic on the end is actually the exit for two very high speed high volume blower motors.
I'm getting the M60 kit when it arrives regardless of detail 'cause it's the only one out there. I probably won't live to see an AFV kit, and all I have is a Tamiya A1 with a very old resin turret conversion(AEF Designs) that ain't real pretty.
I agree Dragon bites, but what really chaps my ass is all the bluster on the box and in their press releases. Just put the crappy model in a plain box with the product name on it and a description of what is WRONG with it. We the modelling public will get the idea.
I'm getting the M60 kit when it arrives regardless of detail 'cause it's the only one out there. I probably won't live to see an AFV kit, and all I have is a Tamiya A1 with a very old resin turret conversion(AEF Designs) that ain't real pretty.
I agree Dragon bites, but what really chaps my ass is all the bluster on the box and in their press releases. Just put the crappy model in a plain box with the product name on it and a description of what is WRONG with it. We the modelling public will get the idea.
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 30, 2016 - 03:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What about the lower hull and running gear? How does Dragon compare in that aspect? From what I've heard that area in the Academy is mostly outdated 2nd millennium parts.
It looks much nicer than the Academy kit. Very similar to their M48 kit
mmdm4
Joined: April 30, 2006
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 10:15 PM UTC
After reading some of the comments about the Dragon M60A2, I began to wonder how many of the experts/critics would be willing to work for free to correct some of the errors they point out? Working for free would help keep the cost down because I also see complaints about this aspect of the model. I'm sure some of you know the proper amount of torque for the road wheel nuts on an M60A2 but the constant bashing is hard to take. I would be willing to bet that some had their minds made up sight unseen that this kit because it is from Dragon would be a dud. This kind of negativity makes it hard for some of us to enjoy building kits!
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 10:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
After reading some of the comments about the Dragon M60A2, I began to wonder how many of the experts/critics would be willing to work for free to correct some of the errors they point out? Working for free would help keep the cost down because I also see complaints about this aspect of the model. I'm sure some of you know the proper amount of torque for the road wheel nuts on an M60A2 but the constant bashing is hard to take. I would be willing to bet that some had their minds made up sight unseen that this kit because it is from Dragon would be a dud. This kind of negativity makes it hard for some of us to enjoy building kits!
Why do you care what others are saying about it? If you like it, build it. It will still look like an M60A2 when done. Some have very high standards on how accurate their builds are, others don't. So be it. Stop getting upset over what everyone else says and go build a model.
Also, why should anyone work for free? I have helped model companies with research and looking over prototypes as they were designing them and I expect to be compensated for my time in some way; free kits, recognition in the instructions, money, something.
Spades
Joined: February 08, 2003
KitMaker: 776 posts
Armorama: 477 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 11:04 PM UTC
Thank you for the reply. 
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 11:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
After reading some of the comments about the Dragon M60A2, I began to wonder how many of the experts/critics would be willing to work for free to correct some of the errors they point out?
Actually many of us do. I assist Dragon for some 13 years now (recently with their M48A1) - mostly for free, except for occasional free kit sample (considering hundreds of hours I spent on some of DML projects, those free kits are nowhere near adequate compensation I would expect, if I wouldn't consider it a part of my hobby). The problem is that from time to time Dragon decide to ignore their consultants and design something fully "in house" with awful results, like in this case, or all Black Label kits...
Hopefully next M60 variants from them will be better because they now decided to ask for my help to fix the mess they made in the M60A2 hull...
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
Armorama: 1,294 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 11:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAfter reading some of the comments about the Dragon M60A2, I began to wonder how many of the experts/critics would be willing to work for free to correct some of the errors they point out?
Actually many of us do. I assist Dragon for some 13 years now (recently with their M48A1) - mostly for free, except for occasional free kit sample (considering hundreds of hours I spent on some of DML projects, those free kits are nowhere near adequate compensation I would expect, if I wouldn't consider it a part of my hobby). The problem is that from time to time Dragon decide to ignore their consultants and design something fully "in house" with awful results, like in this case, or all Black Label kits...
Hopefully next M60 variants from them will be better because they now decided to ask for my help to fix the mess they made in the M60A2 hull...
Yeah, I was going to say that someone like Pawel and Peter Becera do such all the time. Dragon (or any other manufacturer for that matter) often ignores many experts' free offer to help.
IrishGreek
Joined: October 17, 2010
KitMaker: 627 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 12:11 AM UTC
Hasn't Dragon in the past re-released kits with 'fixes' after feedback from our modeling community? Maybe after Pawel get's done with them, they A2 may be a better beast.
One can hope.
One can hope.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 01:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hasn't Dragon in the past re-released kits with 'fixes' after feedback from our modeling community? Maybe after Pawel get's done with them, they A2 may be a better beast.
One can hope.
It's actually quite likely. If they really retool the hull, then future production batches of the kit would include the retooled parts.
mmdm4
Joined: April 30, 2006
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 22 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 04:10 AM UTC
My comment about working for free was sarcastic at best! People complain about the high cost of kits but it takes a lot of research to turn these kits out. My point was if you consider yourself somewhat of an expert, and I can't argue that most on this site are quite well versed then consider doing the research gratis to help keep the cost down. And thanks to all who have already done this. As far as rivet counting, it's not something I worry about. If I like the way a kit looks I will build it!
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