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Dragon drags its feet-again
SgtSnake
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 41 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 10:50 PM UTC
Dragon, in its infinite wisdom, has pushed back release of the M60 MBT until March. Is this the only time, or is this the first time? Nah, I'm just going to build a conversion instead of playing their game. I'll play mine.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 11:03 PM UTC
Somehow I don't think they are paying attention to your game though. 
iowabrit
Joined: November 06, 2007
KitMaker: 585 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 11:10 PM UTC
Maybe they discovered an error...............oh wait... 
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 11:12 PM UTC
If they are using the same hull as the M60A2 they released, don't waste your money.
jstarn
Joined: July 19, 2014
KitMaker: 80 posts
Armorama: 74 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 11:46 PM UTC
Couldn't use the A2 hull as in the kit for a '60, front return roller mount is in a different place.
But maybe comments over on M-L about the accuracy of the A2 hull caused them to take another look at what they had going for the '60.
But maybe comments over on M-L about the accuracy of the A2 hull caused them to take another look at what they had going for the '60.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 11:53 PM UTC
Some people are never happy. They release an inaccurate kit and everyone complains. They delay the release of a kit to potentially improve it and people still complain. 
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 12:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Couldn't use the A2 hull as in the kit for a '60, front return roller mount is in a different place.
.
Oh, they could. They really could. I mean they appear to have just taken their M48 hull and made a couple quick changes and threw it in the M60A2 box. I'd be shocked if they redid anything more than making sure the number of return rollers are correct.
Bergun
Joined: February 16, 2014
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 60 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 03:52 PM UTC
Regardless, I'm buying it!! Only hope that they add ballistic canvas cover for the main gun and M85 .50 cal.
Getting it right is a good thing, but "very close" is fine with me since I don't super detail my builds at all... If the hull is 3mm too short, I will not notice... Just happy to have an original version of the M60 MBT kit coming to the market now!!
Dragon!!! What about adding the M114 APC with either the 20mm cannon or .50 cal. M2 Browning MG to your Cold War line up??!! It would go well with both your M60 and M60A2 kits!!
Getting it right is a good thing, but "very close" is fine with me since I don't super detail my builds at all... If the hull is 3mm too short, I will not notice... Just happy to have an original version of the M60 MBT kit coming to the market now!!
Dragon!!! What about adding the M114 APC with either the 20mm cannon or .50 cal. M2 Browning MG to your Cold War line up??!! It would go well with both your M60 and M60A2 kits!!
ceerosvk
Joined: November 25, 2013
KitMaker: 171 posts
Armorama: 170 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 05:07 PM UTC
Creating a kit, polishing it and puting it into production takes time. an extra month is nothing 
GTDeath13
Joined: June 12, 2015
KitMaker: 921 posts
Armorama: 919 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 05:22 PM UTC
We have been waiting for a plain M60 for years, another month is a drop in the ocean.
How many of us have not purchased and built resin conversions, backdating the Esci or Tamiya hulls? Correcting and shaping mistakes and omitions in numerous M60A1 kits?
The potential of this release, IMHO, is HUGE! Think of all the aftermarket stuff that are going to be released, from simple tracks and manlet covers to conversions for the complete Magach 6 and 7 family.
Think of the kit crisscrossing that can be done. I prefer adding an Academy turret and details to the Dragon hull for a Magach 7C, instead of using the Academy hull.
Be a little positive with this kit guys, it is still better than nothing.
P.S. I despise of Dragon for what they did with the M103 and Conqueror kits but they have been a great contibutor to armor modelling for many years.
Just my 0.02$...
How many of us have not purchased and built resin conversions, backdating the Esci or Tamiya hulls? Correcting and shaping mistakes and omitions in numerous M60A1 kits?
The potential of this release, IMHO, is HUGE! Think of all the aftermarket stuff that are going to be released, from simple tracks and manlet covers to conversions for the complete Magach 6 and 7 family.
Think of the kit crisscrossing that can be done. I prefer adding an Academy turret and details to the Dragon hull for a Magach 7C, instead of using the Academy hull.
Be a little positive with this kit guys, it is still better than nothing.
P.S. I despise of Dragon for what they did with the M103 and Conqueror kits but they have been a great contibutor to armor modelling for many years.
Just my 0.02$...
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 06:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Maybe they discovered an error...............oh wait...
Only one???
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 06:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Regardless, I'm buying it!! Only hope that they add ballistic canvas cover for the main gun and M85 .50 cal.
Getting it right is a good thing, but "very close" is fine with me since I don't super detail my builds at all... If the hull is 3mm too short, I will not notice... Just happy to have an original version of the M60 MBT kit coming to the market now!!
Dragon!!! What about adding the M114 APC with either the 20mm cannon or .50 cal. M2 Browning MG to your Cold War line up??!! It would go well with both your M60 and M60A2 kits!!
What ARE you expecting from "those people"?
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 06:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMaybe they discovered an error...............oh wait...
Only one???
I DOUBT that DRAGON will correct ANYTHING! Look at all the flubs with their "M60A2-which-is-really-an-M48-with-botchery" and a few new parts!?!
What IS the hold-up with AFV CLUB and their -A2? Can we expect AFV CLUB to get it on the market within the next 5 years or so?
Yes, I'm in a bad mood today!
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 06:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Regardless, I'm buying it!! Only hope that they add ballistic canvas cover for the main gun and M85 .50 cal.
Getting it right is a good thing, but "very close" is fine with me since I don't super detail my builds at all... If the hull is 3mm too short, I will not notice... Just happy to have an original version of the M60 MBT kit coming to the market now!!
Dragon!!! What about adding the M114 APC with either the 20mm cannon or .50 cal. M2 Browning MG to your Cold War line up??!! It would go well with both your M60 and M60A2 kits!!
WHY would they bother with "canvas covers" for the M60, when they didn't bother with any for their M60A2, among a host of their other "BOTCH-ULISMS" which they included in that kit?!? AGAIN:
I've just about given up hope on those guys!!!
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 06:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
We have been waiting for a plain M60 for years, another month is a drop in the ocean.
How many of us have not purchased and built resin conversions, backdating the Esci or Tamiya hulls? Correcting and shaping mistakes and omitions in numerous M60A1 kits?
The potential of this release, IMHO, is HUGE! Think of all the aftermarket stuff that are going to be released, from simple tracks and manlet covers to conversions for the complete Magach 6 and 7 family.
Think of the kit crisscrossing that can be done. I prefer adding an Academy turret and details to the Dragon hull for a Magach 7C, instead of using the Academy hull.
Be a little positive with this kit guys, it is still better than nothing.
P.S. I despise of Dragon for what they did with the M103 and Conqueror kits but they have been a great contibutor to armor modelling for many years.
Just my 0.02$...
The M103A1 & A2, the Conqueror, the M6A1, AND the T28 were all "BLACK PLAGUE" efforts...
I'm betting that some of the more ham-fisted bozos from BLACK PLAGUE were hijacked into the M60A2 Project! DRAGON is definitely in a downward spiral- I'm not the only one that's dissatisfied with their way of producing model kits over the last few years. Since DRAGON is also a huge TOY Manufacturer, it's been pretty noticeable of late where their priorities lie...
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Since DRAGON is also a huge TOY Manufacturer, it's been pretty noticeable of late where their priorities lie...
Right, their priorities as a company lie in making money. They would have a poor business model if it was not. They have found that most modelers could care less if the kit is 110% accurate. Most only care if it "looks like" a model of X. So that is what Dragon has decided to provide, and I'm sure that they will sell plenty of models. We modelers who are super detail-oriented are in the minority and not who Dragon has decided to market to. So be it.
Why people get so upset over it I don't know. Just accept it and realize you will have to do some corrections and additions if you want a super-accurate model of the kits you listed. You will be much more calm if you do.
And why the multiple posts with all the yelling (ALL CAPS)?? Relax, go build a model.
MikeyBugs95
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
Armorama: 1,712 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:21 PM UTC
Come now Gino, you should know by now that that's just how he types... Ours not to reason why. Ours but to do and build.
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Come now Gino, you should know by now that that's just how he types... Ours not to reason why. Ours but to do and build.
I picture him shouting at the monitor while he types
mpeplinski
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 487 posts
Armorama: 182 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextCome now Gino, you should know by now that that's just how he types... Ours not to reason why. Ours but to do and build.
I picture him shouting at the monitor while he types
Gotta luv it !
Mike
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSince DRAGON is also a huge TOY Manufacturer, it's been pretty noticeable of late where their priorities lie...
Right, their priorities as a company lie in making money. They would have a poor business model if it was not. They have found that most modelers could care less if the kit is 110% accurate. Most only care if it "looks like" a model of X. So that is what Dragon has decided to provide, and I'm sure that they will sell plenty of models. We modelers who are super detail-oriented are in the minority and not who Dragon has decided to market to. So be it.
Why people get so upset over it I don't know. Just accept it and realize you will have to do some corrections and additions if you want a super-accurate model of the kits you listed. You will be much more calm if you do.
And why the multiple posts with all the yelling (ALL CAPS)?? Relax, go build a model.
Please- For the UMPTEENTH TIME! My CAPS are for EMPHASIS ONLY! That's the way I type, and I'm too old of a dog to change it now. My multiple posts with caps are in response to others' comments, and my comments are in AGREEMENT with theirs.
As to my opinions regarding DRAGON's multitudinous flubs, not only with their M60A2, but with an ever growing raft of their other models as well, I'm not the only one that thinks that DRAGON is REGRESSING from the quality that they used to be famous for.
Yes, I'll agree that most modellers could give a hoot if a particular model is 110% accurate or not. Let's remember that A LOT of us on THIS particular hobby site are part of a small and pretty persnickety niche in the modelling community. That means that many of us would like to have better models than what DRAGON has been feeding us lately- I'd LOVE to see DRAGON revert to the way they used to be, but that's NOT going to happen. If you read my posts regarding DRAGON's retrograde performance, you'll find that I've said "Get USED to it" many times.
If I'm reading the others' comments right, I'm thinking that many of us are not very happy about paying premium prices for mediocre quality... Personally, I haven't built anything "straight out of the box" for over 50 years- There is NO SUCH THING as a "perfect kit" straight out of the box, nor do I expect such a thing to ever happen. But DRAGON could, and should do better...
PS- I'm so relaxed that I fall asleep watching TV most of the time!
and BTW, I have, on my workbenches (yes, that's plural) and in my paint booth:
1/48 TAMIYA P-51D, fictitious aircraft of the 4th Fighter Group, early 1945
1/35 DRAGON M4A3 (early 56-degree Hull), ETO, Summer 1944
1/35 AFV CLUB WC57 Command Car
1/24 MONOGRAM 1930 Packard Speedster Conversion to a Victoria
1/25 AMT/MPC kit-bash of a Pinto-bodied Dirt Modified race car
HO brass New York Ontario & Western Y-2 Class 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain- heavily weathered painting project
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
...DRAGON is REGRESSING from the quality that they used to be famous for.
No argument there.
Quoted Text
But DRAGON could, and should do better...
Why? Who do they owe it to???
That is the crux of my argument. Why should they do anything at all if what they are providing sells.
They are out there to make money, pure and simple. If they stop making money with the level of kits they are producing, they may reconsider what they are producing. I bet they do fine with them and will not up the ante at all.
No need to keep constantly complaining about it. We are not their target audience. You keep saying you have gotten used to it, but you keep complaining about it in every Dragon post, caps for emphasis and all.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 11:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text...DRAGON is REGRESSING from the quality that they used to be famous for.
No argument there.Quoted TextBut DRAGON could, and should do better...
Why? Who do they owe it to???
That is the crux of my argument. Why should they do anything at all if what they are providing sells.
They are out there to make money, pure and simple. If they stop making money with the level of kits they are producing, they may reconsider what they are producing. I bet they do fine with them and will not up the ante at all.
No need to keep constantly complaining about it. We are not their target audience. You keep saying you have gotten used to it, but you keep complaining about it in every Dragon post, caps for emphasis and all.
Didn't I just say that I was agreeing with the other modellers? Didn't I just say that DRAGON isn't going to improve on what they're doing? I didn't open this can of worms. And if you don't like my caps for emphasis, just imagine them to be in lower case...
At least we can agree that DRAGON's declining quality leaves something to be desired, whether we like it or not...
mpeplinski
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 487 posts
Armorama: 182 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 11:55 PM UTC
The problem with Dragon ,was that they rested on their laurels,and it bit them.I wouldn't be too surprised the new companies coming out with stellar kits are being run/owned by former Dragon employees who jumped ship.If it's any consolation,when Dragon first appeared,they raised the bar and continued to do so,forcing other companies to try and meet/exceed their kits.Every company has a part in having companies provide us with high quality kits,it's just too bad that some have stumbled.
Mike
Mike
SgtSnake
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 41 posts
Armorama: 28 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 05:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Some people are never happy. They release an inaccurate kit and everyone complains. They delay the release of a kit to potentially improve it and people still complain.
Ah, your reply is conjecture, Dragon said nothing. The USA Online site just changed the release date. Only you are trying to flame the post. I also stated I wasn't going to wait for the release, but to start on a conversion I have by AEF Designs, very old, poor fitting and nothing like the Legends kit or other more recent releases. I'll make it work and look great, so if and when the 60 comes out I plan to have it. I also think I'll stop posting and let you expert industry insiders do your thing.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:54 AM UTC
No inside info and I don't see how I am supposedly flaming anything. You're the one who posted a complaint with no idea of what is going on either. What is the point of your original post but to complain. I'm just sick of people complaining all the time about every new kit or the smallest change by a model company.
I'm glad you are happy to convert the kit you want. In the end it will probably be better than the Dragon kit anyways. Enjoy the build.
I'm glad you are happy to convert the kit you want. In the end it will probably be better than the Dragon kit anyways. Enjoy the build.
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