Hi all, so I've come quite a ways with my brush painting skills. So I just picked up the trumpeter 2s3 152 spg kit 63 bucks and I really don't want to screw it up lol. Anyway I would like to paint before assembly as it is easier and I can get everything painted however the glue I use will not adhere to paint and superglue eats through it and tends to mess up surrounding paint. So I have been painting after assembly which sucks let me ask how can you all paint prior to assembly and the glue still adhere. There's a ton of little parts that would make masking the area off close to impossible.

To get the glue to "stick" you need to scrape the paint away from the mating surfaces. Another solution would be to mask the mating surfaces before painting. Depending on the size of the surface you could use tape or small pieces of blue tac or similar. Good luck.

Not only does the glue not adhere, but the kit parts won't fit together the way they should. Kits are engineered to be assembled unpainted. If you pre-paint, you put 2 layers of paint between all the parts, and the kit won't fit. If you scrape all the mating surfaces, you'll invariably get it a little uneven and wind up with gaps between the parts. I assemble everything except the wheels and tracks before painting. Most of the guys here do the same.

Concur, paint after assembly.

Now, there are kits where you don't have access to paint in some areas after assembly, so you can built in sub assemblies, paint and then final assemble or paint only the inaccessible areas during assembly (like behind wheels or side skirts) and then paint again once it's all together.

Others may disagree, but using CA glue to assemble a normal styrene kit is asking for trouble even if you get down to the bare plastic before bonding. CA has such poor sheer strength that a modest knock or shock can cause major parts to crack off. I always use cements for assembly except when applying metal or resin components.

Using any glue to attempt to bond painted parts is doomed to failure in the long term as the strength of that bond is only as good as the weakest link. And the adhesion of the paint to the plastic is always really bad. The parts will separate with little effort at the paint to styrene bond line. Frankly I'd avoid that like the plague.

HTH

Paul

I have to agree with others about painting after assembly. It is the best and easiest way. Get a cheap, starter airbrush and try it out. It isn't as hard as it sounds. You can try it out with a rattle can of spray paint as well. Just be careful as they put out a lot of paint and you can end up with runs and thick pools of paint easily. Go with multiple thin coats allowing it to dry in between for best results w/a rattle can.

Paint after assembly is, in general, the way to go. I agree with most of what Paul said, but I will disagree somewhat in that some pieces, particularly pioneer tools and stowage, are often best painted off the model (at least if you are like me, and don't have real steady hands), and I find CA glue is better than styrene cement for adding them after everything is painted. Yes, it will work best if the mating surfaces are unpainted, but for small pieces that don't have a lot of mass CA on a painted surface should normally work just fine. It's comparatively easy to hide a tiny spot of CA glue under a piece being glued down, but styrene cement has a tendency to spread out and ruin your paint job if you are not exceptionally careful.

I think the bottom line is to try a few different approaches and see which ones work best for you for various situations.


Just my $0.02.

Jared, agree with all the above, but the problem is how to break it down so you can actually get paint in the right places. If I may refer you to this thread http://www.armorama.co.uk/forums/206222&page=1 towards the end of page 1 and the start of page 2 is the relevant part. I know this seems like an ego trip as it is my own thread, but believe it or not I even refer to it myself to remind myself how to approach the issue around painting tracks and wheels and the hull.

Also I know this is a small scale model, but the principle applies still, I think. Notice how the parts of the hull that are to be cemented are not painted with primer, such as the nose plate joint, so mask the joining surfaces with tape or blue tack. I primed the sides including the tracks and wheels, then base coated in the dark yellow, then masked everything except the tracks, painted them, then the tyres.

On page 2 the hull top had been joined on, the bare plastic at the nose plate joint had been cemented, filed and sanded down. Then all of the painted lower hull, wheels, tracks and all is masked off again so that the top, including that important nose joint can be primed and painted.

By this method you can paint the tracks, sides and wheels properly, but then get a decent join between the major components, then paint the hull top without messing up the paint work on the bottom. So be prepared to do lots of careful masking, be patient with the logical steps taken, don't be afraid to get paint out again to retouch or paint that one colour in multiple sessions, and make sure you can match colours again, so imho, don't mix your own colours, stick to premixed,allow coats of paint and cement joins to dry before doing more to them (don't sand cement joints until 24 hours old).

I would not advise on making a model the way you are.

You believe it to be easier? You are creating a whole load of problems for yourself doing it this way and the tank will never look right.

They dont paint a car while its disassembled in some factory and neither should you !

This is how I would do it:
Assuming a "clean" finish, i.e. the running gear and tracks are not covered in mud and dirt.
1. Build the wheels. Airbrush the "greenish" and use a paintbrush to paint the "rubber" while the wheels are spinning slowly on a conical peg in a small minidrill.
2. Build the rest of the vehicle, go for the camouflaged version. The tools and small parts on the outside seems to be painted in the same colour as the camouflage which makes it easier. Paint the camouflage, this may require some masking (depending on your airbrushing skills) but I think it is easier than the 'parade' scheme with the white stripes.
3. Assemble the tracks. This is where it gets tricky. The tracks can be built in sections which are then joined on the running gear. See "tutorial" below. If the tracks shall be "clean" then paint them before assembling the large sections onto the running gear, otherwise the whole should be weathered/muddied when assembled.
/ Robin

Winning the battle with those indy-link tracks:
Basics:
Look at the tank from the side: There is one length on the ground, flat if the "ground" is flat et.c. Then there are short lengths going up from the ground towards the idler and the drive sprocket, these can be straight, hanging down or
bent upwards/inwards depending on what the tank is doing (moving forward, backward, turning or small maneuvers). Then comes the curved bits around the idler and the sprocket. Depending on the type of track on the real vehicle the top
run is either almost totally straight or hangs down slightly. Look at images of the real thing before building, Shermans and US tanks = straight, German WWII = slight sagging, Soviet WWII significant sag. Look at images!
Use solvent glue like Humbrol Liquid Poly, do NOT use tube glue unless you are an expert in handling that stuff. Liquid glue took my modelling forward by leaps and bounds.

How to do it:
Described for one side of the tank:
Make a long flat section that goes from the middle of the first road wheel to the middle of the last road wheel. Let it dry completely. By middle of the road wheel I mean the point where it touches flat ground.

Make a long run to reach from the sprocket wheel (one tooth onto the sprocket wheel) all the way to the top of the idler wheel. For a PzIII or IV it should hang down
about the thickness of one track link (check images), on a Sherman it is straight (or very close to straight).
Put it in position on the tank when it is still slightly soft but DO NOT glue it in place yet. Gently shape the track sagging (check images), one link should engage the sprocket and the other end bent down over the idler if the section is long enough.

Now you have the top and bottom sections of the track and need to join them.
Make a short bit (short bit A), 3 to 4 links and shape around the sprocket wheel, three to four bits is the longest section that will still be removable from the sprocket when it is dry. Make a short bit (short bit B), 5-7 links and shape around the idler (no teeth -> longer section is possible to remove when dry) DO NOT glue to the idler yet.

Now it is time to start counting links for the two sections that will go up from the ground towards the sprocket and the idler. The difficult part here is to get just the right curve. These two sections is where you adjust the total length of the
track so that you don't end up with a gap shorter than one track link.
The instruction sheets for Dragon kits usually show the correct number of links.
The length (C) from the ground up to the sprocket wheel should reach 1-2 teeth onto the sprocket leaving a gap at least the length of 'short bit A' between itself and the top run. The section going up to the idler shall be made to reach from the bottom run all the way up to short bit B and short bit B shall reach the top run.
Now you have two long bits where the glue has dried (top and bottom) and two
short semi soft bits, one going between top and bottom around the idler and one
connecting the bottom bit to the sprocket wheel. Gently bend the shorter bits so that the track sits correctly. Check images. It may be necessary to give the top run a little more or a little less sag to get everything to fit, gentle force.
When everything has dried it is time to join the lengths (except short bit A) to one long deep U and make another short bit, AA, to fill in the last few links on the sprocket wheel. If you feel that this is tricky then leave the length C loose until mounting on the tank.
When all this has dried you will have three pieces: the deep U, short bit A and AA (plus possibly length C),
Time for painting, the deep U is fragile but it can still be handled if you are careful.
Paint the base colour and most of the later steps, ask the forum for hints and tips about colours and stuff. The last painting can be done with the track on the tank.
The insides, the side of the track touching the wheels, should be painted before mounting on the tank, outsides are easy to reach afterwards.
The track is mounted on the tank by pushing it on from the idler end, if you are right handed: sprocket wheel to the left, left hand holds tank, right hand holds track and pushes track to the left towards the sprocket. Fit the links over the sprocket and glue in place. By making the joins over the sprocket wheel the teeth will hold everything in place. Use very fine and thin sandpaper to remove the paint where the road wheels and return rollers touches the track and add small amounts of liquid glue. Let it dry.
Time for last paint job and final touch-up of the joints.