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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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help with decal setting solution
Chaman911
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 05:07 AM UTC
Hello everyone! So I put decals onto my Tasca Firefly and I am not impressed like everyone else seems to be. I think part of the problem is that I sprayed Future through my AB for the first tame and it went down really rough as you can see in the pic. But what I don't understand is why my Microsol/Set did not dissolve the decal boarder like it has on my Tamiya decals. I read the Mr. softer/setter is more powerful than Micro. Does the pic look like something that the MR line could handle. I want the numbers to look sprayed on and they don't at all. Thank you!
Chaman911
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 05:08 AM UTC
P.S. I've put about eight coats of Microsol on this decal!
Removed by original poster on 02/10/16 - 00:18:18 (GMT).
tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
#040
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 05:31 AM UTC
My thinking is on the coverage of the gloss coat itself, as you've mentioned it went down really rough. I don't think Micro Sol / Set does any "dissoliving" action as its purpose is to allow better adhesion and soften the decals so it lays more flat than without. Cheers
GazzaS
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 05:41 AM UTC
Silvering would have been the worst result from a rough backing for your decal to sit on.

I use Mr. Mark setter and Mr. Mark Softer. If the decal is too thick, it's just too thick. Enough Mr. Mark Softer can totally dissolve the decal. I have done it. But it won't treat the printed portion any differently than it will the clear portion.

If your decal is too thick, ultra fine trimming before you dip it in water is your only hope. BTW, Future and Mr. Mark Setter don't get along well. Every time I've put the Setter on Future, it has whitened it permanently.

I would look for some AM decals. Techmod makes delightfully thin decals that sink in well, though I don't know if they make a set that you need.

Best wishes,

Gary
Chaman911
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 05:55 AM UTC
The info is appreciated gentlemen! Good warning on the future/Mr. setter! Hopefully everything will be fine in the end.
alewar
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Canelones, Uruguay
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 06:12 AM UTC
Hi, I use our local wax, called Blem of J&J. I apply it with brush as laid several coats 3 or more until you get a shine surface.
To set the decals I use the wax in place of water. I means put the decal in warm water as usually, AND put wax again where the decal goes. After apply the decal roll a #6 brush over it to take away the excess. To SET the decal I don't use Micro products, only the wax.
Works for me.
Regards Álvaro
Armorsmith
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 06:18 AM UTC
If you have any Solvaset try that. Use the tip of your X-acto knife or a small pin to prick several tiny holes in the decal in a few places then apply the Solvaset. Be warned, apply it lightly and do not touch the decal until the Solvaset is dry. Solvaset should soften the decal enough so that it snuggles down even with the rough surface. Repeat if necessary. The optimal solution would be to try to get a smooth clear coat but failing that I recommend trying the Solvaset. Good luck.
Vicious
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 07:00 AM UTC
for me i prefer the Brush then the AB to prepare the base coat for the decal,just on the spot,future is self levelling dont give any problem with brush
Chaman911
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 07:25 AM UTC
Thanks for the tip. I have always brushed Future and had no problems. Not sure why I tried AB this time. I think I was trying to save time...oops. It's ok though. Not like it ruined the model or anything. Has anyone tried Solvaset over future? Does it cause problems like Mr. Softer/setter?
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 08:04 AM UTC
Bryan,
I use Solvaset over Future frequently, mostly on aircraft models-- it may leave a "frosty" residue when you use a lot of solvaset with a difficult decal. If that happens, just airbrush a second coat of Future (I guess you could hand brush it too) and the "frostiness" will disappear-- a few times when I've had really difficult surface I've had to reapply the Future more than once. VR, Russ
Thirian24
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 02:00 PM UTC
I think a couple of coats of future would have fixed your rough surface issue.
Chaman911
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 - 08:58 PM UTC
Dustin,
You may be right. I'm still a novice at this. Good advice! I'm going to mess with my AB pressures and see if I can get the Future to shoot more smoothly
TopSmith
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 01:02 AM UTC
The real problem may lie with the type of airbrush. I have learned that most of us have an airbrush designed to do camoflague not base coats. We use ours for base coats and for the most part we get away with it. You need one that consistantly lays down a nice wet coat with little overspray. I am looking to get one but they are not cheap (close to 300$).
EHAM0624
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 01:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

for me i prefer the Brush then the AB to prepare the base coat for the decal,just on the spot,future is self levelling dont give any problem with brush


As mentioned by Red i also prefer the B instead of the AB
Emeritus
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Uusimaa, Finland
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 02:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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for me i prefer the Brush then the AB to prepare the base coat for the decal,just on the spot,future is self levelling dont give any problem with brush


As mentioned by Red i also prefer the B instead of the AB

Same here. I've never managed to get as smooth & glossy coats by airbrushing as with a brush. I usually do an overal coat of Future with AB, then hand brush a coat or two where the decals will go.
IPLawyer
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 03:10 AM UTC
I've only been airbrushing a year myself, but that surface looks like orange peel effect to me;, you can get get that type of dimpled surface when the paint, or in the case, the Future dries before it hits the surface so it never has a chance to flow and level:

http://mikeashey.com/modeling%20tips%20pdf%20files/tips-%20tips%20on%20airbrushing.pdf

As others have said, Future is so thin that it self levels, even when you brush it on.

Although I know it would be a pain to strip the coating and paint, you may want to consider doing so. One great thing about Future is that you can totally remove it with an ammonium solution such as Windex, without any damage to the model However, ammonia will also remove any acrylic paint beneath as well.

tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
#040
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


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for me i prefer the Brush then the AB to prepare the base coat for the decal,just on the spot,future is self levelling dont give any problem with brush


As mentioned by Red i also prefer the B instead of the AB

Same here. I've never managed to get as smooth & glossy coats by airbrushing as with a brush. I usually do an overal coat of Future with AB, then hand brush a coat or two where the decals will go.


I've only AB'd Future once -- that was when I started using Future years back, and didn't like the results. I have used the hairy stick ever since -- to me it gives better control and coverage.

Besides, its quicker to clean a brush than an AB!

IPLawyer
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 09:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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for me i prefer the Brush then the AB to prepare the base coat for the decal,just on the spot,future is self levelling dont give any problem with brush


As mentioned by Red i also prefer the B instead of the AB

Same here. I've never managed to get as smooth & glossy coats by airbrushing as with a brush. I usually do an overal coat of Future with AB, then hand brush a coat or two where the decals will go.


I've only AB'd Future once -- that was when I started using Future years back, and didn't like the results. I have used the hairy stick ever since -- to me it gives better control and coverage.

Besides, its quicker to clean a brush than an AB!



The one time I airbrushed Future on a model, I tried to make it look sopping wet based on some advice I had read online. The model I was coating was the old Monogram/Revell SBD Dauntless and since it had working parts and I wanted to be able to handle it, so a tough protective coat was particular important to me. Even more so than in this picture, this model really gleams due to its coat of Future.

I did have paper towels ready to allow Future to drip off the edge of the wings and be dabbed away with the paper towel, similar to how I deal with canopies that have been dipped in Future.

https://gallery.kitmaker.net/showphoto.php?photo=438720&cat=30287

The paint is that dark (I used paint with the FS# on the instruction sheet which is too dark), so that is not caused by the Future. Prior to airbrushing Future for the final coat, I hand brushed Future in the areas for the decals, followed by Microset, then the decal, then Microsol. As you can see, Future and the decal setting solutions allowed most of the decals to lay down fairly well, even over raised panel lines.
Chaman911
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 08:20 PM UTC
Thanks again for all the info! I think I will stick with hand brushing Future. I am going to hand brush a coat over the current paint and see if it helps fill the low points. I don't think the rough finish is bad enough to warrant stripping the paint of anything that drastic. Some really great help. It is nice having you guys around to help a newbie like me!
SEDimmick
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 08:39 PM UTC
Try applying a flat coat over it, it should blend away the decal film.

Do keep mind that decal setting solution has a shelf life, so your stuff might be old?

IPLawyer
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 08:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks again for all the info! I think I will stick with hand brushing Future. I am going to hand brush a coat over the current paint and see if it helps fill the low points. I don't think the rough finish is bad enough to warrant stripping the paint of anything that drastic. Some really great help. It is nice having you guys around to help a newbie like me!


Something you might want to do to prepare the surface before brushing on more Future: try sanding the surface gently with a fine grain sanding stick/sandpaper or even a paper towel. If you can polish the surface to make it smoother I think it will help with your next coat of Future, just as smoothing a rough surfaced matte paint job can help make the final protective coat smoother.

Try sanding in an inconspicuous spot to see if it help smooth the surface.
Thirian24
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 03:39 AM UTC
Also, when spraying, you might get a bit closer to the model to avoid the paint or future from drying before it hits the surface. Which causes orange peel, like stated above.
tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
#040
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 04:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Do keep mind that decal setting solution has a shelf life, so your stuff might be old?



Curious about this, how long before it goes bad? What's the best way to store it -- i.e. out of direct light? Cheers
Vicious
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 04:11 AM UTC
Usually the basic rules to store chemical stuff is no direct sun light and temperature not to high and not to low,sadly the manufacturer dont put the date of production.
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