Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
Sticker shock
OatmealSavage
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 12 posts
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 12 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:01 AM UTC
Be still my beating heart, I was at one of my LHS today and nearly gagged at the prices on new kits. The AFV Club M60A1 was marked at $105 CDN, Takom Chieftan Mk 11, $100 CDN, a new aircraft was listed at $123 CDN, not one I was interested in, but Lord tunderin dyin. I feel my days of new purchases may have come to a shuddering halt. There are 3 or 4 LHS and prices may differ by a few $ here and there . Like many, my hobby budget is limited, and mail order, due to the tattered Loonie, is a no go. Anyone else have that dread feeling?
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:19 AM UTC
To limit my losses due to exchange rate (AU dollar worth 70US cents) I try to find sites where my fellow countrymen are selling what I want.
ArtyG37B
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 13, 2009
KitMaker: 420 posts
Armorama: 416 posts
Joined: August 13, 2009
KitMaker: 420 posts
Armorama: 416 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:21 AM UTC
I know the feeling, don't forget the taxes on top of it. i wait till my store has it's 25% sales (twice a year).
Jmarles
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:21 AM UTC
I just do the usual - cherry-pick specials or wait. Plenty of kits in the stash anyway....I concentrate on paints, AM stuff etc. now.
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:25 AM UTC
Asian hobby distributors like Hobby Link Japan or Lucky Model usually have fantastic prices on Asian kits especially new Tamiya stuff. Squadron Mail Order has sales with ridiculously low prices. Even with the (for now) low Canadian and Aussie Dollar exchange rates + shipping you could still get some great deals. Check them out.
Jeff
Jeff
wowcool
Solomon Islands
Joined: September 26, 2015
KitMaker: 113 posts
Armorama: 106 posts
Joined: September 26, 2015
KitMaker: 113 posts
Armorama: 106 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:55 AM UTC
With the current exchange rates, the prices of those AFV Club and Takom kits are actually only a couple of dollars above the retail prices in other countries.
While I'm simply reading the cost of delivery, if you order one AFV Club M60A1 from Lucky Model right now, you'll be saving $5 CDN and that's mere surface mail.
While I'm simply reading the cost of delivery, if you order one AFV Club M60A1 from Lucky Model right now, you'll be saving $5 CDN and that's mere surface mail.
PrickleHead
Western Australia, Australia
Joined: December 31, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 121 posts
Joined: December 31, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 121 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 10:43 AM UTC
Just did a quick price comparison on a kit I was thinking for the Flak campaign, Italieri's Staghound AA:
LHS 1 - $99AUD
LHS 2 - $99.95AUD
Hannants - $66.58AUD (That includes insurance and postage and handling)
Interstate Hobby shop - $90.24 (That includes insurance and postage and handling)
I hate it but when it comes to things like that, I am on a budget so the LHS will lose out.
LHS 1 - $99AUD
LHS 2 - $99.95AUD
Hannants - $66.58AUD (That includes insurance and postage and handling)
Interstate Hobby shop - $90.24 (That includes insurance and postage and handling)
I hate it but when it comes to things like that, I am on a budget so the LHS will lose out.
Lawyer1
South Africa
Joined: July 22, 2015
KitMaker: 72 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Joined: July 22, 2015
KitMaker: 72 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 12:08 PM UTC
The bottom has dropped out of the South African currency, the Rand/Dollar exchange rate is approximately R15.00 to the Dollar, so needless to say my purchases have also dropped off significantly. Fortunately, like many the kit stash is rather substantial, so for now my purchases are limited to the necessities like glue and paints, etc.
Online shops like Hobby Easy and Lucky Model do often have some great specials, so I look out for those as well.
Online shops like Hobby Easy and Lucky Model do often have some great specials, so I look out for those as well.
MrCompletely
Saitama-ken, Japan / 日本
Joined: February 12, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Joined: February 12, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 12:11 PM UTC
I've been a visitor here for years but never posted until this thread. I totally agree. The prices of new models are ridiculous. And it's not just M.B.T.s, even soft skins are becoming out of my reach. This probably seems like a whinge to those who can afford to spend 6 times the price of a kit on aftermarket barrels, tracks, etc; but for the working poor like me it's a painful and truthful fact that the hobby I've had all my life (I'm 55 now) is becoming too expensive.
Vierville
Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 384 posts
Armorama: 372 posts
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 384 posts
Armorama: 372 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 12:36 PM UTC
I feel everyone's pain! I recently went to my local hobby store here in Johannesburg and to my horror saw that a Dragon Sd.kfz.251 release from 2014 was priced at ZAR 915. The usual price of this kit locally is around ZAR 450.
To make matters worse,our currency has devalued by around 30% over the last year and the postal system is only partially functional here (theft is extremely common and they strike almost constantly-the last postal strike lasted five months! ) so if one has to order from overseas UPS or FedEx shipping is essential,which starts at €85 or $120 even for a decal sheet on its own!
To make matters worse,our currency has devalued by around 30% over the last year and the postal system is only partially functional here (theft is extremely common and they strike almost constantly-the last postal strike lasted five months! ) so if one has to order from overseas UPS or FedEx shipping is essential,which starts at €85 or $120 even for a decal sheet on its own!
M4A1Sherman
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 02:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I've been a visitor here for years but never posted until this thread. I totally agree. The prices of new models are ridiculous. And it's not just M.B.T.s, even soft skins are becoming out of my reach. This probably seems like a whinge to those who can afford to spend 6 times the price of a kit on aftermarket barrels, tracks, etc; but for the working poor like me it's a painful and truthful fact that the hobby I've had all my life (I'm 55 now) is becoming too expensive.
Welcome to the 21st Century...
I'm 63, and I've run the entire gamut of model-pricing since 1958, when I built my first model. Don't forget that today's models are LIGHT-YEARS ahead in sophistication, parts count and accuracy. All this joy comes at a premium price, if you're going to pay RETAIL...
To ALL:
I'm afraid that the LHS can no longer compete with the Asian Hobby Outlets' pricing. Since many of the kits that we want to buy are manufactured by Asian model manufacturers, the Asian Hobby Outlets have a very distinct advantage over our domestic LHS' where pricing is concerned. They don't have to import their goods- Simple enough?
If your LHS is selling the models that you want at what is considered to be "ridiculous pricing" with even worse Shipping Charges (comparatively speaking), and this kind of pricing is putting a "death grip" on your wallet, then you will have to broaden your horizons.
If your wallet is more important to you than patronizing your LHS, then I suggest going on ebay or some like online Buying/Selling Shopping site, and start buying there. The prices of the many vendors on these sites are easily HALF of the prices that have been quoted for the same kits being sold by the LHS. Let me repeat myself- The LHS can no longer compete with the pricing that the Asian Hobby Outlets are posting for their wares. The same goes for the Eastern European Hobby Outlets as well...
Unfortunately, I live in an area that is completely bereft of ANY kind of an LHS. I DON'T ESPECIALLY LIKE buying from online overseas vendors, but my wallet dictates otherwise...
Wierdy
Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 02:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The bottom has dropped out of the South African currency, the Rand/Dollar exchange rate is approximately R15.00 to the Dollar, so needless to say my purchases have also dropped off significantly. Fortunately, like many the kit stash is rather substantial, so for now my purchases are limited to the necessities like glue and paints, etc.
Online shops like Hobby Easy and Lucky Model do often have some great specials, so I look out for those as well.
The same here. Two years ago exchange rate was 1 to 8, now it is 1 to 27. Buying a kit is not as simple and painless thing as it used to be. My reaction was simple: now I have two jobs. It doesn't allow to live the way I could back than, but still...
Cantstopbuyingkits
European Union
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 02:20 PM UTC
I agree, as much as I want to support local shops by buying from them I just can't when online stores (UK and overseas) have such an edge over them price wise, for both wargaming and scale models.
maximus8425
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: May 12, 2006
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 320 posts
Joined: May 12, 2006
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 320 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 04:55 PM UTC
Please forgive my ignorance in these matters but this is a question for any site members in the UK who have ordered kits from Lucky Model, HLJ or any of the other overseas sellers. Are the packages subject to customs duty or are they marked as gift to circumvent that process. Having bought non kit items from overseas in the past I have been stung rather badly.
edklingon
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Joined: October 11, 2010
KitMaker: 194 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Joined: October 11, 2010
KitMaker: 194 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 05:12 PM UTC
Well... let me talk about Brasil.
The actual exchange rate is 1 dollar = 4,10 reais (our currency)
And the taxes: 60% (the kit PLUS the shipping - Yes, they tax the shipping too...)
So, a $40 kit + $15 for the shipping could cost to me R$ 360,80 reais!
It is not easy to be a modeler in Brazil today ...
The actual exchange rate is 1 dollar = 4,10 reais (our currency)
And the taxes: 60% (the kit PLUS the shipping - Yes, they tax the shipping too...)
So, a $40 kit + $15 for the shipping could cost to me R$ 360,80 reais!
It is not easy to be a modeler in Brazil today ...
callmehobbes
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 17, 2005
KitMaker: 751 posts
Armorama: 740 posts
Joined: April 17, 2005
KitMaker: 751 posts
Armorama: 740 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 05:21 PM UTC
Hi, if you order from outside the Europe, you will be hit with the tax.
35th-scale
Kildare, Ireland
Joined: November 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,212 posts
Armorama: 2,807 posts
Joined: November 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,212 posts
Armorama: 2,807 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 05:24 PM UTC
Just adding my 2c
Yes, you can get better value online, and sometimes because of location or subject that's your only choice. However if you are lucky enough to have a LHS that you can go in and browse and get your paints , tools, glues etc don't you think they also deserve your support on kit purchases? Just imagine what it would be like if they were not there.
Reviewing my 2015 purchases about half of the kits were bought at the LHSs (I'm lucky to have more than 1 nearby), a quarter at Telford and a quarter on-line
Yes, you can get better value online, and sometimes because of location or subject that's your only choice. However if you are lucky enough to have a LHS that you can go in and browse and get your paints , tools, glues etc don't you think they also deserve your support on kit purchases? Just imagine what it would be like if they were not there.
Reviewing my 2015 purchases about half of the kits were bought at the LHSs (I'm lucky to have more than 1 nearby), a quarter at Telford and a quarter on-line
Biggles2
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 08:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Be still my beating heart, I was at one of my LHS today and nearly gagged at the prices on new kits. The AFV Club M60A1 was marked at $105 CDN, Takom Chieftan Mk 11, $100 CDN, a new aircraft was listed at $123 CDN, not one I was interested in, but Lord tunderin dyin. I feel my days of new purchases may have come to a shuddering halt. There are 3 or 4 LHS and prices may differ by a few $ here and there . Like many, my hobby budget is limited, and mail order, due to the tattered Loonie, is a no go. Anyone else have that dread feeling?
Hi Jim T: If you live near the Ontario/Quebec border, you could try Hobby Junction Express in Dorval (Montreal). They have stacks of older Dragon kits - the good ones chock full of PE goodies and metal barrels - at original prices. Long before price increases and currency exchange, so prices are almost 1/2 that of newer re-stocks.
5thMech
United States
Joined: August 21, 2003
KitMaker: 81 posts
Armorama: 55 posts
Joined: August 21, 2003
KitMaker: 81 posts
Armorama: 55 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 08:48 PM UTC
Like everything else, there always has to be a villain or culprit responsible!
In the "global economy," it seems that kit pricing has gone to whatever the market will bear. A friend (non-modeler) asked me if I thought the low cost of crude oil these days would lower the cost of plastic, injection moulded kits. I said that it seemed a reasonable assumption but, as you have pointed out, the kit costs continue to rise. The costs cannot be easily reduced by local hobby retailers because their fixed costs are not going down. This leads to many turning to the on-line retailers and the demise of the local hobby shop. It's kind of a vicious circle but one not easily broken.
I'm no economist but it would be VERY interesting to see the ultimate cost of a kit's development from research and design to packaging and distribution to projected vs. actual sales. Are the manufacturers receiving a REASONABLE return on investment or is it excessive? Perhaps it's a losing proposition requiring the next kit to be priced even higher to try to minimize the Losses? Who knows? I wholeheartedly agree with you. We-are at the breaking point in the cost of our hobby.
In the "global economy," it seems that kit pricing has gone to whatever the market will bear. A friend (non-modeler) asked me if I thought the low cost of crude oil these days would lower the cost of plastic, injection moulded kits. I said that it seemed a reasonable assumption but, as you have pointed out, the kit costs continue to rise. The costs cannot be easily reduced by local hobby retailers because their fixed costs are not going down. This leads to many turning to the on-line retailers and the demise of the local hobby shop. It's kind of a vicious circle but one not easily broken.
I'm no economist but it would be VERY interesting to see the ultimate cost of a kit's development from research and design to packaging and distribution to projected vs. actual sales. Are the manufacturers receiving a REASONABLE return on investment or is it excessive? Perhaps it's a losing proposition requiring the next kit to be priced even higher to try to minimize the Losses? Who knows? I wholeheartedly agree with you. We-are at the breaking point in the cost of our hobby.
dhines
Nova Scotia, Canada
Joined: November 17, 2015
KitMaker: 407 posts
Armorama: 373 posts
Joined: November 17, 2015
KitMaker: 407 posts
Armorama: 373 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 10:05 PM UTC
Being in Canada with the 30% exchange rate, one has to be very choosey as to what new kits to purchase. I for one consider myself lucky to have a stash of 150+ kits in my stash. I built it up over 20 years when the exchange rate was much better and a lot of my kits are older dragon with the etch and metal barrels etc, and some nice older Tamiya with an emphasis on the Tigers. I mostly concentrate on paints and finishing supplies now. Regards....Dale
hugohuertas
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 10:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just adding my 2c
Yes, you can get better value online, and sometimes because of location or subject that's your only choice. However if you are lucky enough to have a LHS that you can go in and browse and get your paints , tools, glues etc don't you think they also deserve your support on kit purchases? Just imagine what it would be like if they were not there.
Reviewing my 2015 purchases about half of the kits were bought at the LHSs (I'm lucky to have more than 1 nearby), a quarter at Telford and a quarter on-line
My simple, repeated answer: NO.
If you feel happy doing so, go ahead, but it is dar easier and cheaper to plan ahead and make your purchases of paints, cement and stuff in advance.
I'm able to do so almost always, and I'm far from being a genious so everybody should be able too...
KurtLaughlin
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 11:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
A friend (non-modeler) asked me if I thought the low cost of crude oil these days would lower the cost of plastic, injection moulded kits. I said that it seemed a reasonable assumption but, as you have pointed out, the kit costs continue to rise.
If you know how much the plastic in a kit costs it's a reasonable (if incorrect) assumption. If you don't, it's just wild speculation. Polystyrene molding stock (pellets) goes for around $1,000 to $1,400 per metric ton (1000 Kg). Because it was handy I weighed a Hobby Boss T-35, quite a large kit. Plastic, packaging, box, and all was just under 1 Kg. So, even if we say that is all plastic, the contribution of plastic to the kit cost is $1.00 to $1.40. Even if the cost of petroleum were to quadruple, we'd be looking at what, six bucks?
The largest factors in manufactured goods are labor and overhead (e.g. facilities, loan service, taxes) at all levels.
Quoted Text
In the "global economy," it seems that kit pricing has gone to whatever the market will bear.
Excuse me, but when was it ever anything but that?
Quoted Text
. . . Are the manufacturers receiving a REASONABLE return on investment or is it excessive? . . . Like everything else, there always has to be a villain or culprit responsible!
From that language I get the sense that in your mind the "problem" is that people are are allowed sell their property at whatever price they want.
KL
The costs cannot be easily reduced by local hobby retailers because their fixed costs are not going down. This leads to many turning to the on-line retailers and the demise of the local hobby shop. It's kind of a vicious circle but one not easily broken.
I'm no economist but it would be VERY interesting to see the ultimate cost of a kit's development from research and design to packaging and distribution to projected vs. actual sales. Perhaps it's a losing proposition requiring the next kit to be priced even higher to try to minimize the Losses? Who knows? I wholeheartedly agree with you. We-are at the breaking point in the cost of our hobby.[/quote]
viper29_ca
New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 11:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Be still my beating heart, I was at one of my LHS today and nearly gagged at the prices on new kits. The AFV Club M60A1 was marked at $105 CDN, Takom Chieftan Mk 11, $100 CDN, a new aircraft was listed at $123 CDN, not one I was interested in, but Lord tunderin dyin. I feel my days of new purchases may have come to a shuddering halt. There are 3 or 4 LHS and prices may differ by a few $ here and there . Like many, my hobby budget is limited, and mail order, due to the tattered Loonie, is a no go. Anyone else have that dread feeling?
I feel you, and I own a hobby shop. While my prices aren't quite that insane, I have noticed a trend of prices going up.
That being said, I do try to keep my prices lower, certainly not $105 for the M60 or the Chieftains. I likely wouldn't have them in my shop if they were going to be that much.
viper29_ca
New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 11:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Being in Canada with the 30% exchange rate, one has to be very choosey as to what new kits to purchase. I for one consider myself lucky to have a stash of 150+ kits in my stash. I built it up over 20 years when the exchange rate was much better and a lot of my kits are older dragon with the etch and metal barrels etc, and some nice older Tamiya with an emphasis on the Tigers. I mostly concentrate on paints and finishing supplies now. Regards....Dale
30%?? I would be happy if it was only 30% exchange. By the time you pay the vultures called your credit card company, and the 6-8% they tack on, it quickly becomes more like 50-55% exchange!
PantherF
Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Friday, February 12, 2016 - 12:04 AM UTC
Not that I support it, but it's a good case of "buyer beware" and if you DO know better then you've just saved yourself some money.
I myself have looked at a few prices while at the LHS and thought... O.S!!!
Jeff
I myself have looked at a few prices while at the LHS and thought... O.S!!!
Jeff