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REVIEW
Leopard 2A4M CAN
brian638
Joined: July 24, 2004
KitMaker: 318 posts
Armorama: 263 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 03:57 AM UTC
Michael Shackleton casts his expert eye over this latest Leopard 2A4M CAN from HobbyBoss. Have they got it right then? Read his review and look over all of the supplied images.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Link to Item
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
DAR
Joined: April 27, 2002
KitMaker: 250 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 04:55 AM UTC
Thanks for the review Michael. Any ideas on how much the kit retails for?
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 04:59 AM UTC
I can't wait for this one to be available!!
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 06:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Any ideas on how much the kit retails for?
Trumpeter/Hobby Boss usually strives for about the $45.00 USD retail mark in order to make it affordable. However, with ailing economies all over the place the local hobby shops may be inclined to raise that retail price.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 06:32 AM UTC
Don't forget to order my Canadian Leopard 2 DVD set!
The images of the Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN were used by Hobby Boss to develop this great new kit!
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/241842&page=1
The images of the Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN were used by Hobby Boss to develop this great new kit!
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/241842&page=1
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 06:48 AM UTC
A couple of minor details to address...
You don't have to use the 506 decals that simulate the Velcro if you build the kit as a brand new tank in Germany used by the crews from training and commissioning of the main guns before they were deployed or sent to Canada. There were no Velcro patches on the tanks in Germany during that time frame. The 2A4M CANs also had the carbine stowage box and both ECM storage boxes mounted at that time too.
Regarding the antennas...Hobby Boss is not incorrect in showing four antennas attached. All of the 2A4M CANs deployed to Afghanistan had four antennas mounted.
Hobby Boss could have simply shown the slat and the additional two antennas as optional parts to be used at the discretion of the modeller. I think stating that those details are incorrect is a bit too one sided.
If the slat sections had not been included someone for sure would have complained that they should have been. Many modellers have complained about the complexity and cost of aftermaket PE slat sets. Many calls for plastic slat have been heard. Now you have it. Yes, Barracuda MCS is required for the slat for an Afghanistan deployed tank. I suspect we will see some from an aftermarket producer. Blackdog Models did it for the Hobby Boss Leopard 2A6M CAN kit and Land Rover kits.
Who is to say that in the future we won't see a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN without Barracuda MCS but with slat armour attached?
Wouldn't it be funny if there already is an image of a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN without Barracuda MCS attached but showing the turret and hull slat sections attached.
You don't have to use the 506 decals that simulate the Velcro if you build the kit as a brand new tank in Germany used by the crews from training and commissioning of the main guns before they were deployed or sent to Canada. There were no Velcro patches on the tanks in Germany during that time frame. The 2A4M CANs also had the carbine stowage box and both ECM storage boxes mounted at that time too.
Regarding the antennas...Hobby Boss is not incorrect in showing four antennas attached. All of the 2A4M CANs deployed to Afghanistan had four antennas mounted.
Hobby Boss could have simply shown the slat and the additional two antennas as optional parts to be used at the discretion of the modeller. I think stating that those details are incorrect is a bit too one sided.
If the slat sections had not been included someone for sure would have complained that they should have been. Many modellers have complained about the complexity and cost of aftermaket PE slat sets. Many calls for plastic slat have been heard. Now you have it. Yes, Barracuda MCS is required for the slat for an Afghanistan deployed tank. I suspect we will see some from an aftermarket producer. Blackdog Models did it for the Hobby Boss Leopard 2A6M CAN kit and Land Rover kits.
Who is to say that in the future we won't see a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN without Barracuda MCS but with slat armour attached?
Wouldn't it be funny if there already is an image of a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN without Barracuda MCS attached but showing the turret and hull slat sections attached.
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 07:21 AM UTC
Is there a resin correction set for the grill?
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 08:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Is there a resin correction set for the grill?
You may likely see one very soon as well as some other details for the kit.
pod3105
Joined: August 08, 2010
KitMaker: 466 posts
Armorama: 444 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 12:13 PM UTC
Michael-thank you a for very useful review. Jason- thank you alsofor osme points of clarification.
mshackleton
Joined: December 16, 2007
KitMaker: 559 posts
Armorama: 517 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 01:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Regarding the antennas...Hobby Boss is not incorrect in showing four antennas attached. All of the 2A4M CANs deployed to Afghanistan had four antennas mounted.
Hobby Boss could have simply shown the slat and the additional two antennas as optional parts to be used at the discretion of the modeller. I think stating that those details are incorrect is a bit too one sided.
Jason - at no point do I state anything is incorrect (apart from the rear grille), particularly about the antennae. I'm just pointing out the fact that this is NOT an Afghan theatre model from the box. As we have both said, HB should have pointed out the options more clearly. Didn't you and Anthony have any input towards the instructions?
The Blackdog Barracuda was awful. Perfect Scale Modellbau do it much better. I have just done a test fit of the HB hull bottom to the PSM Barracuda hull top and the fit isn't too bad. Just trim a millimetre or two off the rear hull edges and it should fit. All the widths are perfect. By combining the two kits (and not using the old HobbyBoss 2A4 which the conversion was intended for), you can have a fine model of an Afghan theatre 2A4M CAN. The PSM kit also has the correct grille!
The fact that the rear slats are wrong is totally inexcusable, particularly as HB have made the same mistake before, and it is a well-known mistake.
I believe the latest machines are not fitted with the Velcro patches, so if you can't face placing all 506 of them, don't:-)
DAR
Joined: April 27, 2002
KitMaker: 250 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 02:18 PM UTC
My plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.
Hellrabbit
Joined: June 28, 2015
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 02:26 PM UTC
Quoted Text
My plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.
if you want a standard A4M CAN, remove the slat armor is enough. as for the storage box and antenna...Jason has already give you the clue.
DAR
Joined: April 27, 2002
KitMaker: 250 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 02:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMy plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.
if you want a standard A4M CAN, remove the slat armor is enough. as for the storage box and antenna...Jason has already give you the clue.
My query was about the current antenna set up for tanks returned to Canada post Afghanistan. Some images on the net show the 'T' mounts fitted, whilst others don't. What isn't clear is the time frame in which the photos were taken.
terminators
Joined: February 20, 2012
KitMaker: 1,932 posts
Armorama: 1,907 posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 11:28 PM UTC
Thanks for the review.
Sorry but I don't understand what you mean about the slat armour. Is there some issues with it for build a real vehicle in Afghanistan ?
Sorry but I don't understand what you mean about the slat armour. Is there some issues with it for build a real vehicle in Afghanistan ?
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextRegarding the antennas...Hobby Boss is not incorrect in showing four antennas attached. All of the 2A4M CANs deployed to Afghanistan had four antennas mounted.
Hobby Boss could have simply shown the slat and the additional two antennas as optional parts to be used at the discretion of the modeller. I think stating that those details are incorrect is a bit too one sided.
Jason - at no point do I state anything is incorrect (apart from the rear grille), particularly about the antennae. I'm just pointing out the fact that this is NOT an Afghan theatre model from the box. As we have both said, HB should have pointed out the options more clearly. Didn't you and Anthony have any input towards the instructions?
The Blackdog Barracuda was awful. Perfect Scale Modellbau do it much better. I have just done a test fit of the HB hull bottom to the PSM Barracuda hull top and the fit isn't too bad. Just trim a millimetre or two off the rear hull edges and it should fit. All the widths are perfect. By combining the two kits (and not using the old HobbyBoss 2A4 which the conversion was intended for), you can have a fine model of an Afghan theatre 2A4M CAN. The PSM kit also has the correct grille!
The fact that the rear slats are wrong is totally inexcusable, particularly as HB have made the same mistake before, and it is a well-known mistake.
I believe the latest machines are not fitted with the Velcro patches, so if you can't face placing all 506 of them, don't:-)
First...I had no input on the instructions. I was a technical consultant on details of the real vehicle to be incorporated into the kit. The rear grill detail was missed by everyone. C'est la vie. I suspect that 12 grill slats versus 11 grill slats will not stop ANYONE from building the kit.
The antenna issue is as you say...a "quibble"...put two or four antennas on as the modeller pleases...easy peasy.
I agree the previous Black Dog Barracuda conversion is not up to par with PSM...but it might be totally acceptable to someone other than you or I...and it would be a less expensive option that buying the PSM conversion plus the Hobby Boss kit. The PSM 2A4M CAN conversion is 110 Euro and the Black Dog 2A6M CAN conversion is 87 Euro. Perhaps Black Dog will improve their Barracuda quality. Sometimes companies actually get better with their products...would you not say?
With the kit not even on the shelves other than Asia yet maybe PSM will create a new conversion specific to the new Hobby Boss kit...that would be a wise decision considering the excellent detail on their current 2A4M CAN conversion.
All of the 2A4M CANs sent to Canada have the Velcro on them. The only exception were when the tanks were in Germany for crew training and main gun commissioning. They had no Velcro strips attached in Germany.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.
For building a current Canadian stationed version...
- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for the review.
Sorry but I don't understand what you mean about the slat armour. Is there some issues with it for build a real vehicle in Afghanistan ?
At the current time with current reference images the slat armour was only observed attached to the five Leopard 2A4M CAN tanks that were deployed to Afghanistan. When the tanks were in Afghanistan they were also fitted with the Barracuda Mobile Camouflage System (MCS) panels on the hull and turret. They also had a tan painted Carbine stowage box and two tan painted ECM boxes on the turret top.
Neither the Barracuda or the slat armour or the ECM boxes are mounted on current Leopard 2A4M CANs in Canada. They were delivered with the ECM boxes and carbine box attached. The ECM boxes were removed to prevent damage. The carbine box is still attached. The T antenna mounts are standard on all 2A4M CANs. In Afghanistan there were four antennas attached (two on each). In Canada current 2A4M CANs have two antennas attached. One antenna is mounted on each T shaped mount. The antennas can be seen on the front position or the rear position on the T shaped mounts.
For detailed digital reference images of Canadian Leopard 2A4M CANs and Canada's other Leopard 2s my DVD set is exactly what you need.
MadModeler
Joined: July 26, 2012
KitMaker: 454 posts
Armorama: 281 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
For building a current Canadian stationed version...
- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.
You also need a few 1:35 Tim Horton cups laying around the tank.
Cheers,
Tom
mshackleton
Joined: December 16, 2007
KitMaker: 559 posts
Armorama: 517 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:31 AM UTC
I thought I read somewhere that the Velcro was not being used on newly-delivered machines? Or was that just 2A6M CAN?
DAR
Joined: April 27, 2002
KitMaker: 250 posts
Armorama: 188 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
For building a current Canadian stationed version...
- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.
Thank you Jason, your input is much appreciated.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
For building a current Canadian stationed version...
- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.
You also need a few 1:35 Tim Horton cups laying around the tank.
Cheers,
Tom
I believe the proper military designation is...
Container, thermal, beverage, with roll up rim.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I thought I read somewhere that the Velcro was not being used on newly-delivered machines? Or was that just 2A6M CAN?
That is only the newly rebuilt Canadian Leopard 2A6M CANs. They have no Velcro patches and some other upgrades including the now standardized front and rear driving cameras, and the camouflage pole rack on the turret top. The slat attachment points are welded on the turret and hull and the ECM boxes are still attached.
At the current time the 2A6M CANs are only in Gagetown with the A Squadron, Royal Canadian Armoured Corps School and C Squadron, Royal Canadian Dragoons.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 03:22 AM UTC
I dig some digging and I can confirm that the tank as depicted in the kit existed.
Yes, a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN with the Velcro strips, no Barracuda MCS, ECM boxes, carbine rifle box, and hull and turret slat armour mounted.
Sorry folks, I won't be posting an image.
So, if you want to build the kit completely out of box it would be correct.
Yes, a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN with the Velcro strips, no Barracuda MCS, ECM boxes, carbine rifle box, and hull and turret slat armour mounted.
Sorry folks, I won't be posting an image.
So, if you want to build the kit completely out of box it would be correct.
Hellrabbit
Joined: June 28, 2015
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 03:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I dig some digging and I can confirm that the tank as depicted in the kit existed.
Yes, a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN with the Velcro strips, no Barracuda MCS, ECM boxes, carbine rifle box, and hull and turret slat armour mounted.
Sorry folks, I won't be posting an image.
So, if you want to build the kit completely out of box it would be correct.
And wont it be funny if HobbyBoss will also release a normal version without Slat armor? it is always welcomed that more brand new leopard kit can be done from HB
MadModeler
Joined: July 26, 2012
KitMaker: 454 posts
Armorama: 281 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 03:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I believe the proper military designation is...
Container, thermal, beverage, with roll up rim.
Only if it has a NATO stock number on it.
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