This kit, #35227, can it be painted in German Grey as a base, and then have a winter camo wash applied over that? Will the unit markings work with that scheme?

Cheers,
Dustin

Dustin,
Have you ever been to the site Tiger im Focus? As far as I know, it's got the largest collection of Tiger photos.

Gary

That kit has a number of accuracy problems, which is why Dragon can charge more money for Dragon kits.

The supplied decals (which have some of the problems in the kit) don't correspond to any grey Tigers.

The kit parts don't all correspond to the "Africa" period either, so if you care about accuracy, you would be looking at Tigers from slightly later.

If you use some of the spare parts in the kit (e.g. the straight side mudguards, and the wider glacis plate) you can build some whitewash-over-grey Tigers from s.Pz.Abt. 502 at Leningrad in early 1943, such as this one:




Are you interested in the exact changes to make? I can send you privately some larger photos too.

David

Oh come on David. It has nothing to do with accuracy as a measure of kit pricing.

Dragon charge, as with all manufacturers, what they believe the market will bear.

David,

I would very much appreciate the info.

Gary,

I'll give it a look. Thank you.

Then explain why anybody would pay more money for a Dragon kit when a cheaper Tamiya kit is alongside it - and they don't care about accuracy?

David

Sorry David, Dragon charges what the market will bear. People always pay for perceived value and Don’t get me wrong they make a nice kit, but people are paying for the reputation made when they put the metal barrels and magic track and other goodies in there kits. Now they are pulling those items and increased their pricing, the complete accuracy is not worth it I will go with Rye Fields model and do some modeling to make the corrections.

Robert

Dustin:

I'm sorry, but after checking the kit parts, I have to withdraw my suggestion.
I thought that the turret side with a large hatch would be available in the kit as a spare part, hecause the sprue is there. But Tamiya have actually swapped out that part from the sprue.

So I must conclude that this kit doesn't build any real Tigers that were grey. Strictly speaking it doesn't correctly build any real Tigers at all!

How concerned with accuracy are you?

David

David,

Thanks for that information. I'm not terribly concerned with accuracy.. But I would like to build an initial Tiger that was grey with white wash with the correct unit markings.

How about # 35216 can't that be built as a gray Tiger with whitewash ?

Well, you have a Tiger with two pistol ports on the turret, so I will look at those only.

If you could get hold of a Pz.3 turret bin, you could build a Tiger of the 503. They were whitewashed in winter. You would need the turret number decals too:



Some of them were all grey when new, and their turret numbers were all white then.

You could also modify the kit somewhat, stripping items off it, to make an "Initial" Tiger of the 502nd. You would need decals and a Pz.3 bin for that too.

David

I don't like the look of the Pz III turret bin. Maybe I should consider a different kit?

Which Dragon kit would fit my needs?

I suppose I could live with the Pz III turret bin, then I could use kit #6600 but it doesn't have the exhaust shield or the mud guards that I'm after. That's depicted in the Tamiya Kit

So you haven't obtained a kit yet? Then I don't know what your criteria are. Do you want to build a specific real Tiger? Or any Tiger with whitewash over grey and the mudguards that you pointed out?

What exactly are your mudguard and exhaust shield requirements? The exact ones depicted on the Tamiya box were never painted grey (to my knowledge).

David

I have not purchased a kit yet.

I just thought the Tiger depicted on that kit(Tamiya 35227), was an initial, and the one on 6600 was an early initial (like the very first initials)?

So there weren't any earlys, with mud guards and those type of exhaust shields painted grey with white wash, ever?

I guess I could just build 6600 with white was and 35227 as the DAK it represents.

My ultimate goal it to have;

Tiger 1 initial in Grey with white wash
Tiger 1 DAK
Tiger 1 Early new from factory in transport mode
Tiger 1 Mid (which I have almost built, but will probably build another one more acuuratly)
Tiger 1 Late

By "those type of exhaust shields" do you mean the ones with slots in them? They were never painted grey.

I don't know what you mean by "mud guards" because there were two types of front/rear mud guards and three types of side mud guards.

David

I was referring to the side mud guards in the picture I posted.

So clearly, I can't achieve what I'm looking for with this Tamiya kit. Could you recommend a Dragon version besides 6600, knowing what I'm after?

Side mud guards, exhaust shields (obviously not the style in the picture above) that would have been painted grey with white wash.

6600 has neither of these, from the box art picture. Unless they are on the sprues.

So, you mean the first type of side mudguard, which was made of two pieces, having a visible joint running along just underneath the bolts.

Those ones almost all went to Africa. According to the factory records, a couple of them may have gone to s.Pz.Abt.503 in Russia and they may have been grey. However we can't find any photos to support that theory.

Also, your box picture shows rounded corner pieces joining the side and rear mudguards. They were found in Africa only and were never grey.

--------

6600 represents the Tigers before the time of mudguards and there are no mudguards in the box.

--------

Now, you may not be aware of this, but the first Tigers of s.Pz.Abt.503 had the second type of side mudugard, which was the same as the first except that the joint was no longer there. They still had the front segments shorter than the rear ones. They still had the segments NOT running in an exact straight line. They still had no stiffeners underneath.

HOWEVER, their front and rear mudguards were the wide folding type, which is not on your box picture.

These Tigers were apparently grey. They were built without exhause shields. They had a Pz.3 turret bin.

So, I need to know what turret bin you wish to work with. The Tamiya kit contains the initial wide one and the standard one, but not the Pz.3 type.

David

Thank you for that great information, David.

I like this turret bin, but I don't really care which bin is used, as long as its not the Pz III bin.



Cheers,
Dustin

Anthony, I'm very sorry I missed your response, sir.

35216 is an early and I don't think it can be built as an initial. Or can it?

I'm not sure which you mean because that painting is a mishmash of different things!

Are you saying that you like the bin with supports on the sides?
That bin is unusually wide. The Tamiya kit contains it, but Tamiya's representation is actually a bit narrow. The same is true of the Rye Field kit (5001). Dragon's new Tunisian Tiger (6608) has a correct version.

David

I like this style of turret bin also

Ah, THAT bin was used only on a group of 9 Tigers. It is available only in the new Rye Field kit (5003) or as a resin aftermarket part.

Those 9 Tigers were all painted grey, and then whitewashed. Suits you fine, I should think! The Rye Field kit is not wholly accurate, however, and it doesn't have decals for the time when the Tigers were still grey.

The reason we're having this discussion is that nobody has properly kitted some of the early months of Tiger development - a time when Tigers were being painted grey and sent to Russia, but they already had mudguards.

Rye Field went in first and made mistakes. I expect Dragon to go there eventually.

David

Ok so I'll be needin to buy the turret bin and decals seperatly. What are the markings I need to look for of the 9 Tigers?

So the Rye Field kit would be the one to purchase? Is there a Dragon variant?

Cheers,
Dustin

Sorry, did you misunderstand?
The Rye Field kit has the special bin for these 9 Tigers. If you get the Rye Field kit, you won't need to buy that bin separately.

David