I am working on a model of an M24 Chaffee as one of the German tanks in the 1953 movie The Desert Rats with Richard Burton and James Mason. I am nearing the painting stage and after untold hours of searching, even writing the studio I have been unable to obtain any information about the color the German M24s were painted in the attack during the sand storm. I am hoping someone might have some information on this.

I have studied numerous b&w photos of tanks and the scenes from the movie but an OD painted tank can look like the ones in the movie as well as one that was a medium gray. So no help there.

I want the model to be as accurate to the movie as possible. Any help is appreciated.

This link will show you a picture of one of the tanks from the movie.

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_369998-Cadillac-M24-Chaffee-1944.html

Thanks for any help,

Terry

All of the publicity stills I've turned up are black and white (newspaper photos were all black and white at the time, and there would be little need for color shots). Even if you could turn up a living member of the cast or crew, they may not remember the color 63 years later (unless they took color snapshots, still an expensive luxury in the early '50's).
Judging from the contrast between the base color and the black cross, I doubt the base color was Olive Drab. Probably a sand shade, so the German cross would show up dramatically.

In older movies especially black and white ones they usually wouldn't repaint vehicles on loan from the Army. M24 and M8 armored cars were still active service vehicles and the Army lent them complete with crews. From what I saw watching the movie they might have added some sand paint over the OD but that is about all. Even for the color To Hell and Back the "German" tanks stayed in olive drab.

Thanks Gentlemen, I too have found only B&W images so far. But one color image that shows the M8 and it is painted in a sand color, but possibly a water based paint as a close up shows a darker color showing at hard edges and especially on the barrel. I think that is on one of the movie boxes.

I always thought that when the M8 was hit they just blew a charge in the ground and sunk the front wheel in the hole and lit some material on the front fender on fire to give the damaged affect. But in a close up still while watching the movie they actually blew the front left fender off that puppy.

Back to the M24s. I studied numerous B&W pictures of US OD painted vehicles and they look the same tonal value that hte M24s in the movie do. But i know that is not a safe assumption. I figured they would probably have painted them a medium gray shade as that was so stereotypical of German armor, and that too gives the same tonal look in a B&W pictures!

I was guessing that the tanks were on loan from a National Guard unit in California (the movie was filmed in California) and they just painted the crosses on their OD finish. But again, that is really just assumption. But I was guessing by this time the M24 was a second line light tank being replaced by the Bulldog???? Anyway, I am seeking Guard units in California to see if they might have anything.

I wrote Robert Osborne of TBS and also Twentieth Century Studio hoping there might be some production data/notes still around that might mention or discuss the tanks, but never heard back from either.

So my dilemma is what color do I use, figuring there are three to choose from - OD, Sand, or Gray????

Thanks again,

Terry

The film was originally black and white so I guess you're pretty unlikely to find any colour shots.

Have you thought about painting it as it appeared in the movie ? i.e. actually in monochrome, that would make a pretty cool display piece I think and be true to the film's artistic values

Magpie, I have actually had a friend suggest doing just that, which would end up being a gray color. But I am not giving up just yet, and am hoping there might be some obscure source for the info and I can find it.

Thanks for the reply,

Terry

The M41 was just entering production around that time, and the first priority for delivery of the new tank was units stationed on the inter-German frontier, the "real" front line against communism. US-based units and US units in Korea and Japan had to wait a few years before they could replace all of their refurbished World War Two gear. Regular Army first, followed by Army Reserve and National Guard outfits.

Typically the National Guard had to wait until all the regular Army was filled in only getting a handful of training vehicles. The NJNG got their M41s and M47s in 1956 as part of a total re-equipment program.

The M24 was the light tank, and the M8 was by 1950 an expendable training vehicle left in inventory(?) so they could blow it up. Remember the M8 is supposed to be British so maybe it was painted sand as a contrast to the German vehicles. When I watched the film I noticed that the tanks were all fitted out for operation so the CA NG might have used it as a training exercise as they did other operations for movie production.

If the movie was done in one of the desert training areas it was not unknown for the the tanks to have gotten temporary sand coats to blend in with the desert. Remember this tank is also acting in a sandstorm so any base color would effectively be completely covered in dust anyway. Close up pictures show the wonderful a dusty texture that makes an OD tank look completely sand colored.

As an addendum there are some good stories I read about the production of the later Armored Command in 1960 in the southern German training areas of the US Army. I also had a chance to talk to one of training NCOs present at the time. He said they just painted the crosses and had a couple tank commanders dress up in black panzer uniform. However the Army owuld not let the brand new M60's be used insisting the regular M48A2's fill both roles. There were no Shermans to be had though the Germans got to stand next to a monument German tank for their briefing. The German infantry were US troops just given overcoats and helmets (retaining their M1 rifles!) and told to do a standard town assault exercise which is what the area where the filming took place actually was used for. So a lot depended on what the US Army was willing to do to accommodate the movie makers.

Wouldn't surprise me if the entrenchments the Desert Rats were in were made by the Army or even preexisting training entrenchments.

Wow! More great information. I was especially happy to read the post by Bravo1102 about his insight opportunity of the making of the movie Armored Command. I found a picture of one of the tanks used and if it is in OD with just German crosses painted on, then it very much looks the same shade/hue/color as the M24s in The Desert Rats.

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_84627-Chrysler-M48--Patton-.html

There is also a picture of one of the M24s in another scene in the movie and it seems darker than as seen in the sand storm. It's the scene where the German sentry is standing just in front of it and one of the smaller raiding parties knocks it out. I am new here so am not sure how to include a picture yet but if I can I will share that picture with you.

All of this seems to make me think that the default might be to go with OD and add the crosses. It also makes sense that if the tanks were still in active use by a NG unit then they would probably not have painted the tanks beyond adding the crosses since it was a B&W movie.

Your help gentlemen has been excellent, and when it comes down to it if I am not able to find anything finite I have some good material here for at least a more educated guess.

Thanks again all!

Terry