Been wondering about this - does the M113 have a christened name? I've heard "Gavin" applied in connection to the M113, but never heard any soldiers calling it such.

Gunnie

Well, Gunnie, it would be news to me if it were true. I don't have a clue, frankly, but certainly James Gavin deserves a vehicle named after him.

Greg

What if I told you guys that Gen. Gavin sort of invented the M113. Not in its present form, but as an idea that the Para's needed a vehicle that combined speed and protection.

Would you believe this ?

I could buy that Danny - no reason not to believe you!!! I think it would be interesting - and a fitting name for a vehicle borne of his inspiration.

Gunnie

Gavin it's not his official name, but it was given out of respect to general Gavin who indeed came up with the idea of a fast and protective vehicle back in 1947.

The Isrealis know this M113 as the Zelda. I don't think that either name is being used by the troops though.

Wanna know more on this ? See :

http://www.ciar.org/~ttk/mbt/m113/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2116/m113combat.htm

That's what I like to do: Read a question and than roam the www for a plausible answer.

Hope jou enjoy the backgrounds on the M113

Danny
I'm a major M113 fan and have spent a lot of time scouring the web for info. I thought I had it about covered. Your link leads to an excellent site. Thanks for posting it.

It's a pleasure.

I enjoy searching the web and adding knowledge to my ever hungry brain. An even better.....I can make others happy too !

Enjoy !

Thanks Danny - very, very nice page you found there. The 'A3 looks pretty mean...

Gunnie

I think I'll ask Jim to change the familiar EAGLE into WEBHUNTER or something like that.

May be he'll forgive me for joking him around in some other post on callsigns......He was going to kick @ss with anybody who would say that his callsign referred to his/her favourite plane...........I just couldn't help teasing him to have a little fun.....

Just kidding. Eagle suits me just fine.

Gunnie--she is universally known as the M113. Although I had a battalion commander in Germany who responded to the question "what does 113 mean to you", by saying "5."
DJ

Gunnie - the M113 was never called anything until recent efforts to name it. We called them "Tracks", "PCs", "Papa-Chucks", or just "chucks". The name Gavin was never attached to them until recently, and that website is one of the major pushers of the idea.

If you search around on the site you can find a petition you can sign electronically, trying to get DoA to change the name. Use the 'facts' they cite with caution, as they rarely provide citations or proof for the assertions they call facts. The bias against the LAV III/Stryker is obvious, and they play a little fast and loose with the facts to further that bias. A number of their assertions are reasonable on the surface, until you dig in and compare hard fact apples to hard fact apples. There was a fairly long discussion on AFVNews about this, and there were several gaping logic holes that were pointed out there. They do have good pics, though!

BTW: why bother to change the name of the vehicle at nearly the end of it's service life? It strikes me odd, since the airborne so beloved by Gen Gavin refused to use the M113, even though it was made to satisfy their specifications! Perhaps some folks have too much time on their hands? Maybe they need a new hobby?

Hey! We could recruit them to the dark side!

Just a question I remember reading in Journal of military ordnance that a LAV type vehicle won out over a new version of the M113. Is that still in the works or is it cancelled like the Crusader 155mm.

Shiryon - You are correct, if a little behind. Last year, a version of the Canadian LAV III was selected for the new Medium-Weight Brigade's vehicle in a competition with a number of tracked and wheeled alternatives. One of these alternatives was indeed the 'stretch' M113. Over the last year, the LAV (now re-named the Stryker) has been in developement and modification for US use.

There remains a great deal of debate over whether the LAV III/Stryker is the right vehicle for this role. Concerns over weight and dimensions, as well as armament for the fire support and direct-fire versions, continue to raise questions. A growing number of people are increasingly skeptical of the selection process and the development expenditures. As yet, the LAV III/Stryker has not been fielded in significant numbers, although deliveries have recently started.

Arengca
A "strech" M113. Now that intregues me. Was a prototype ever built? Do you know of pics?
I've never done a major kitbash, but a strech M113 might just be a good start.
Now I'm excited!

You might want to try the fmc site or get the back issue of JOMO. As to the debate over which is better, who can say. A track vehicle has better cross country mobility and can probably take more obstacles than a wheeled APC. It can also pretty much do a 360 deg. turn in its own legnth. Wheeled are probably better at road or convoy duty and may be quieter??? I don't know maybe use both withunits getting some ratio??????

There were prototypes of the 6-road wheel M113s. I saw a pictures years ago. It was mainly aimed at an armored cargo carrier for forward resupply. The lenghtened chassis and hull increased cargo carrying ability.

If I recall right they were going to name the now defunct M8 AGS the Gavin. I was really bummed out when the pulled the plug on that project. I had served on the Sheridan for 4 years and was looking forward to having a vehicle that could put some serious amount of firepower down range in a hurry. With all the discussions of how the Striker is too heavy to drop and it lacks this and that.... I cant figure it out. Our Sheridans werent exactly light and we put them out of 130's and 141's all the time. They were even dropped into combat in 89' in Panama. So I cant see what the weight issue is with the Striker. They need to re-look their decision to drop the AGS..(My opinion). We always called our 113's PC's. Never knew them by any other name. Have heard the term Sled, used though.. lol. "Q"

Sorry, don't mean to 'reach-in' to the thread here, but, Eagle....since you're the 'WebHunter', do you have any information on the M113 bridge -layer variant? Would love an info you get on this subject. Anything you get, please post it here, or on the 'M113 & variant' thread. Or just PM me....thanks.

Tread.

Ooooh, a 'stretched' M113? Tell me more.

The webhunt will start Tread. I'll let you know what I came up with soon !

Thx Eagle. :-)

Tread,

I'm sorry I have to tell you this. I've been searching the www for some hours now. I haven't found a single thing on the M113 AVLB. At least nothing containing pics. Some dull stories but nothing woth mentioning.

I don't give up just yet, but my hope is fading.....

NP, Eagle. Apparently the M113 bridge-layer is just one of those 'rare birds', which is exactly why I want to build one! It's one of those projects that once built, and if submitted to a model contest, you could be pretty darn sure there wouldn't be another one in the same room.

In the 'M113 & variants' thread some other members have already submitted some photos they found on the subject. So there's a small handfull of pics there, but tough to use for building take-off plans.
But then a challenge wouldn't be called a 'challenge' then, would it?

Tread.

BTW, don't give up Eagle