_GOTOBOTTOM
Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Help me identify this T-34/76 model '42
clay_cliff
Visit this Community
Lima, Peru
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 371 posts
Posted: Monday, March 07, 2016 - 09:24 PM UTC




I think it is model 1942, I'd like to know where was it built, those grab handles on the engine deck caught my eye... Four of them, two at each side, short and welded transversally, instead of the omnipresent long handles welded longitudinally, one per side. First time I see this detail, maybe just a restoration for museum purposes, I'd like to know a bit more. Pics used for discussion only. Best regards.

José.
easyco69
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Monday, March 07, 2016 - 11:27 PM UTC
Only a guess
1941 Model Factory 183 Cast M1941 turret (Fall 1941 - Spring 1942)
or
T34 Model 1941/42 STZ (Cast Turret)

So many variants , someone probably knows.


Dragon makes several T-34 variants
Wierdy
Visit this Community
Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 01:48 AM UTC
It is a summer 1942 production model from Factory 183.
MCR
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 04:49 AM UTC
As Paul says, this is a UTZ Model '42 though I would think late first quarter of that year.
The one provided to the US in 1943 is pretty much identical.
MCR
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 04:51 AM UTC
David, the one in your photo is a later "flat" turreted T-34 from Factory 112.
clay_cliff
Visit this Community
Lima, Peru
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 371 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - 11:50 PM UTC
Why is it called a "flat" turret? I thought only UTZ T-34/85 turret was called that way.
MCR
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 08:32 PM UTC
Well, it can be called several things, even one that more or less translates into "pancake". Anyway, I used "flat" to differentiate it from the "hex" or "gayka" turret.
On the T-34-85 "flattened" I think refers to a variation in the sides of the casting.
easyco69
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

David, the one in your photo is a later "flat" turreted T-34 from Factory 112.


kool. How many factories were there? Did each factory make their own versions?
I heard Stalin moved the factories behind the mountains when the Germans invaded...would this affect the design in any way? ie- cut corners?
Was each factory given a specific model to produce or how did that work? Because we see so many variants that are so similar but with little differences between them?
With that said, was the armor protection for all of them the same for each year? When did they upgun the T-34 to 76mm?
The pic below is not mine but by Chris Wauchop & looks like the first photo. Dragon T-34/76 Model 1941, kit number 6205.
I think I could possibly be on a new mission..collect every T-34 Variant.How many are there?
Axis23
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Joined: July 05, 2006
KitMaker: 112 posts
Armorama: 106 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

As Paul says, this is a UTZ Model '42 though I would think late first quarter of that year.
The one provided to the US in 1943 is pretty much identical.


I had no idea that the Soviets gave the United States a T-34.
That's very interesting because I was sure that J. Walter Christie had pitched a tank design to the US Army earlier and they turned him down.
Having a T-34 to evaluate really would of shown the US army what a mistake they had made for passing on Christie's designs.
GeraldOwens
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 03:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

As Paul says, this is a UTZ Model '42 though I would think late first quarter of that year.
The one provided to the US in 1943 is pretty much identical.


I had no idea that the Soviets gave the United States a T-34.
That's very interesting because I was sure that J. Walter Christie had pitched a tank design to the US Army earlier and they turned him down.
Having a T-34 to evaluate really would of shown the US army what a mistake they had made for passing on Christie's designs.


Actually, the Soviets gave the US a KV-1 for trial purposes. The T-34 was acquired from a German proving ground in 1945 (it had a German Notek night driving lamp installed). Both machines were on display at Aberdeen Proving Ground's museum until the collection was moved south a few years ago. The T-34's Christie suspension was adequate, but the Soviets replaced it (as soon as was practicable), in the T-44 and T-54, which had torsion bars instead of coil springs.
dtniedert
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Joined: December 11, 2014
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 03:46 AM UTC
Google T34 Mythical Weapon. By far the best T34 reference I have seen.
Wierdy
Visit this Community
Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 01:23 PM UTC
A KV-1 and a T-34 (now on display at Aberdeen) were delivered to the U.S. in 1941 and then in 1943 they took one more T-34 which, as Mark mentioned, is identical to the vehicle from the picture on top of the page. All 1940-1942/43 production types had different variations of turret generally referred to as 'Pirozhock'(Patty or Stuffed pie)in current Russian sources.Later Mickey mouse turret nicknamed 'Gayka'(hex nut) and final version with 85-mm gun is called 'Golovastik'(Bighead).
MCR
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 07:49 PM UTC
Gerald, that is not correct. The Beutepanzer is a "Model '41". The one provided to the US is a UTZ produce "Model '42". The cut away example in the photo Jose posted for his question about the turret periscopes is the T-34 provided to the US.
MCR
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 13, 2016 - 06:07 AM UTC
David, you've asked questions here that could fill volumes. I can't even begin to give you detailed answers but here are some basic bits of information to get you started"


(K)ool. How many factories were there?

Six altogether (if you count Factory 183 in Kharkov and Nizhniy Tagil as one factory) though not all at once: Factory 183, STZ, Factory 112 Krasnoye Sormovo, ChKZ, UZTM (that last produced only around 730 tanks before switching to self propelled guns).

Did each factory make their own versions?

No, not entirely. UTZ (Factory 183 in Nizhniy Tagil), ChKZ, and UZTM are nearly identical and difficult to tell apart though many have tried.

Factory 174 is also very similar to UTZ, at least early on. By mid-1943 they had added a few of their own refinements including wider hinges on the rear plate and a different variation of the commander’s cupola made from rolled steel plate rather than cast.

STZ after its initial start up, which was accomplished using “kits” provided by UTZ, quickly changed aspects of hull and turret construction to lower costs and simplify assembly.

Factory 112, which also used UTZ kits for its initial runs, quickly made changes to the design to allow it produce the tank in their facilities the most notable of which was dispensing with the rolled lower rear plate replacing it with flat steel (this was the introduction of the “simplified hull”). They also used interlocking plates similar, though not identical, to STZ until later in 1943. Krasnoye Sormovo tanks can be easily identified from the back by the unique hinges they use and the fact that the upper rear plates overlap the lower rear plate unlike every other manufacturer other than STZ (who continued to use the “Model ‘41” type lower rear plate).
Sormovo also added bullet splash strips to protect the turret race, a feature also unique to them.

I heard Stalin moved the factories behind the mountains when the Germans invaded...would this affect the design in any way? ie- cut corners?

This is correct, some of the factories were moved most notably Factory 183. In as far as “cutting corners” goes a better term would be “simplification”. All factories participated in programs the intent of which was to cut costs, reduce the use of strategic materials, and lessen the time needed to produce an individual T-34. More successful changes were quickly shared between factories but, for STZ and to a slightly lesser extent Factory 112, some of the changes lead to greatly reduced reliability.

Was each factory given a specific model to produce or how did that work? Because we see so many variants that are so similar but with little differences between them?

No. Each factory was told to produce X number of T-34s and was given some leeway as to how to accomplish that. Remember though that there could be no great mechanical variations between each of the producers; they all had to use the same guns, engines, electrical, and other standardized systems.
That said, Factory 112 continued to make T-34’s with the “flat” turret well after everyone else had adopted the hex turret and Factory 174 continued to use the hex turret for some time after UTZ and Sormovo had switched to making the T-34-85.

With that said, was the armor protection for all of them the same for each year? When did they upgun the T-34 to 76mm?

There were changes to the hull armor. Initially the design called for 45mm of glacis armor and 40mm on the sides and rear. This was changed to 45mm all around in order to reduce the number of different thicknesses of plate needed to make the tank.
For a time some T-34s had an additional 15mm plate welded to the glacis but this was a short lived modification.
Krasnoye Sormovo produced a number of tanks with extra armor welded not only to the glacis but the turret as well. Still others from that factory had much thicker plate added to the glacis but I suspect this was more to save flawed glacis plates rather than to improve resistance to AP shot.
The thickness of the turret armor varied between welded and cast versions but generally speaking all turrets of a similar pattern would have the same wall thickness. The forged turrets of course were unique.

The Model 40/41/43 all had 76.2mm (3”) guns though the Model ’40 was fitted with the L-11 and the others with the F-34

The pic below is not mine but by Chris Wauchop & looks like the first photo. Dragon T-34/76 Model 1941, kit number 6205.

It’s not. The model represents a “standard” production, earlyish, Model ’41. The photo is a Model ’42 with its later “simplified” hull.

I think I could possibly be on a new mission..collect every T-34 (v)ariant. How many are there?

Dozens certainly. Perhaps hundreds when all the different T-34-85’s and factory rebuilds are added to the mix. Frankly, I’ve never even tried to count.
MCR
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 13, 2016 - 06:38 PM UTC
[quote
(K)ool. How many factories were there?

Six altogether (if you count Factory 183 in Kharkov and Nizhniy Tagil as one factory) though not all at once: Factory 183, STZ, Factory 112 Krasnoye Sormovo, ChKZ, UZTM (that last produced only around 730 tanks before switching to self propelled guns).

Oops! I missed Factory 174. Apologies. :-)
clay_cliff
Visit this Community
Lima, Peru
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 371 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 - 06:30 AM UTC
One last question: No external fuel cells for this version? Haven't found any picture of this tank (Factory 183) using them, only tanks from the Factory 112 using the "square" fuel cells at the rear plate. Best regards.

José.
MCR
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 08:57 PM UTC
None that I've seen.
 _GOTOTOP