Hi everyone,
For my wedding anniversary my wife gave me a gift voucher to my LHS. I walked out of there with two Dragon kits: 6331 Marder III H and 9116 Pz. III G Afrika Korps.
Both kits have Magic Tracks. I've watched some Youtube videos on their assembly, including one where a guy uses rubber cement to put the runs together.
I've built one tank since my recent return to the hobby. I put Friuls on my Academy Tiger because the rubber tracks were even less suitable than the old Tamiya rubber band tracks. I really liked how the tracks turned out, but they weren't exactly cheap.
So, my question is: For these kits, is there any advantage in Friuls over Magic tracks?
Thanks,
Gary
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Magic tracks vs. Friul
Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 03:13 AM UTC
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 03:59 AM UTC
Nothing beats the metal tracks for realism. They "sag" like the real thing, and you can scrape off weathering to show wear, such as when the tank is traveling over paved surfaces.
But their average price now is $40+ per set.
Magic Tracks have their defenders, but I figure if I'm putting all this money for AM stuff into a kit PLUS my valuable time, I want the best results I can get. So I usually sell my MTs here and use the proceeds to lessen the bite for Friuls.
But their average price now is $40+ per set.
Magic Tracks have their defenders, but I figure if I'm putting all this money for AM stuff into a kit PLUS my valuable time, I want the best results I can get. So I usually sell my MTs here and use the proceeds to lessen the bite for Friuls.
Vicious
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 04:08 AM UTC
i dont know for thant particular kits but if you dont have much money to spend magic track is usually pretty good and when paited you dont see a big difference sure need more work to looks good as Friuls...
Tojo72
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 04:28 AM UTC
I like metal better,but I don't like the cost plus any burnishing fluid you might use.But MT'S are more then adequate,in fact your lucky because most new Dragon kits now come with their infamous DS Tracks,which can look decent,but will probably Crack in a few years.
Fruils are probably less fiddly,but not do much so then MT's
Fruils are probably less fiddly,but not do much so then MT's
panzerbob01
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 05:31 AM UTC
Magic Tracks look great, can be sagged realistically, are easy to work with (my fingers bled with Fruils - but that's me), and, best of all (to me) they came in the kit - so no ordering AM, paying yet more, etc. MT sets are usually very well detailed - and once one paints and adds dirt, etc., the quality difference in detail compared to Fruils is seldom obvious, IMO (and speaking as a long-time IPMS model show judge who has seen a lot of tracks of all sorts!).
As for weathering; I think MT paint up great, and as I don't play around with my builds once finished... I've never had any wearing-off of paint!
Count me in as an MT fan! I BUY MT here when I luck badly and get a kit with DS in it!
But - Fruils do have that auto-saggy look and add some weight, so...
Just my opinion!
Bob
As for weathering; I think MT paint up great, and as I don't play around with my builds once finished... I've never had any wearing-off of paint!
Count me in as an MT fan! I BUY MT here when I luck badly and get a kit with DS in it!
But - Fruils do have that auto-saggy look and add some weight, so...
Just my opinion!
Bob
Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 06:08 AM UTC
I love Friuls, no question, but I just don't have that kind of money to throw around. Magic tracks are an acceptable substitute, in my mind. Sometimes, I'll spring for Friuls if I really want to kick things up a notch, but just can't afford to do it that often.
Now if someone would just market the molds so I could cast my own links...
Now if someone would just market the molds so I could cast my own links...
Beastmaster
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 06:17 AM UTC
I'd go for Magic Tracks any day. Ok metal tracks have that realistic sag but you can easily do that with MT anyway. And they're not that fiddly either unlike some metal tracks especially if you have to do all that cutting metal pins etc. That's too tedious even for me (someone who prefers indie links). You can do a run of Magic Tracks each night and because they dry in place you can slowly shape them round the sprockets bit by bit as each link dries.
I think probably snap together links (like on Tamiyas MKIV and Char kits) are the easiest, quickest and least tedious but MT are second best to snap together tracks.
I think probably snap together links (like on Tamiyas MKIV and Char kits) are the easiest, quickest and least tedious but MT are second best to snap together tracks.
acebatau
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 07:02 AM UTC
Mm mm... Magic tracks... Love them...
Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 12:25 PM UTC
Guys,
Thank you for your thoughts and helpful replies!
Having used Friuls once, and reading your replies, I've come to the conclusion that if I can afford it, get Friuls or some other metalled tracks.
I can see the detail of the Magic Tracks, but I know when I pick up a run of Friuls, that every last link will follow. And for me, that may just be enough of a difference.
Best Wishes,
Gary
Thank you for your thoughts and helpful replies!
Having used Friuls once, and reading your replies, I've come to the conclusion that if I can afford it, get Friuls or some other metalled tracks.
I can see the detail of the Magic Tracks, but I know when I pick up a run of Friuls, that every last link will follow. And for me, that may just be enough of a difference.
Best Wishes,
Gary
vettejack
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 04:09 PM UTC
Metal tracks for me...almost all the time. And if the kit has individual links that prove as easy in assembly, then I go with them...bottom line: individual links, metal or plastic are for me, no matter who makes them. However, the detail has to be there when bought. The realism can't be beat as well with proper preparation and 'blackening' IMHO (yea, I have 'blackend' plastic tracks before...not with the solution, but simply with black and/or darkened paint, then lighten the track with different paint hues ending up with the proper wear).
vettejack
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 04:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI love Friuls, no question, but I just don't have that kind of money to throw around. Magic tracks are an acceptable substitute, in my mind. Sometimes, I'll spring for Friuls if I really want to kick things up a notch, but just can't afford to do it that often.
Now if someone would just market the molds so I could cast my own links...
Because of the extra cost, it is a far closer question with magic tracks. With DS tracks and other single band tracks, I think it becomes much harder to make that argument.
I still like friuls compared to magic tracks, although Idid use magic tracks for an Sdkfz 7, as they have those rubber pads. It can be tedious to remove the slight pin marks on the back, and intend to use them for the marder I and panzer i panzerjaeger.
Another consideration is that I really enjoy making friul links. I can do it while watching television. I make pins by taking staples soaked in white vinegar (which removes the glue bonding them) and then twisting off the ends of each side. Sometimes you have to drill out the holes but always.
Friuls are also a lot more durable, and dont come readily come undone the way plastic or resin tracks can.
When putting Friuls together I do the same thing by watching TV at the same time...funny how time passes when assembling them! Having a beer doesn't hurt either!
Tojo72
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 04:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Guys,
Thank you for your thoughts and helpful replies!
Having used Friuls once, and reading your replies, I've come to the conclusion that if I can afford it, get Friuls or some other metalled tracks.
I can see the detail of the Magic Tracks, but I know when I pick up a run of Friuls, that every last link will follow. And for me, that may just be enough of a difference.
Best Wishes,
Gary
look into Spade Ace Metal Tracks,they seem to be cheaper then Fruils and the one set I used was good.
ericadeane
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 05:16 PM UTC
One area NOT to choose metal AM tracks over plastic or resin ones -- most US manufactured WW2 era AFVs. Their suspensions were designed to have very taut tracks. The advantage of metal is the natural, weighted sagginess. These simply aren't present on Shermans and Stuarts and Priests, etc unless you want so show track maintenance.
Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 06:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
One area NOT to choose metal AM tracks over plastic or resin ones -- most US manufactured WW2 era AFVs. Their suspensions were designed to have very taut tracks. The advantage of metal is the natural, weighted sagginess. These simply aren't present on Shermans and Stuarts and Priests, etc unless you want so show track maintenance.
Roy's much more experienced than I at this and has the builds to prove it, but I don't know that I entirely agree where kits with fixed (i.e. non-adjustable) idlers are concerned. Metal tracks with their attendant wire pins I can actually get taut enough with relatively little risk of breakage; whereas, getting plastic indy and L&L tracks to come out taut enough with no gaps and no snapping of delicate joints has often proved frustrating. Building a kit with adjustable idlers generally solves this, in which case Roy is spot on.
Bizarre
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 06:40 PM UTC
if you are interested in quality metal tracks you have to look for Masterclubs and not Friuls.
Unbeatable.
in US they are stocked by hardtargetmodels.
Unbeatable.
in US they are stocked by hardtargetmodels.
bill_c
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Posted: Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 07:00 PM UTC
Regarding US AFVs.
The problem with Friuls on Shermans, for example, is that you have to use one kind of track part for the straightaways, and another for the curves. Since it's very difficult to know ahead of time how many tracks it will take for each individual model, I found that sort of problem too complicated to bother with. In the case of the Firefly I did for this build, I started with Friuls and then switched to the Tasca/Asuka "rubber band" tracks that came with the kit.
The problem with Friuls on Shermans, for example, is that you have to use one kind of track part for the straightaways, and another for the curves. Since it's very difficult to know ahead of time how many tracks it will take for each individual model, I found that sort of problem too complicated to bother with. In the case of the Firefly I did for this build, I started with Friuls and then switched to the Tasca/Asuka "rubber band" tracks that came with the kit.
RLlockie
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Posted: Friday, March 18, 2016 - 12:33 AM UTC
Indeed but for those I'm always going to use RHPS/Panda because they are excellent and require little or no cement to stay together. I built some Bronco Sherman track last year but it had many more parts and was considerably more fiddly, although the results were nice.
For skeleton track though, the Friuland MK stuff is usually pretty good in my experience. Not tried Spade Ace or Masterclub as yet but I've also not had the kind of Friul difficulties that some describe.
For skeleton track though, the Friuland MK stuff is usually pretty good in my experience. Not tried Spade Ace or Masterclub as yet but I've also not had the kind of Friul difficulties that some describe.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Friday, March 18, 2016 - 02:28 AM UTC
Personally, I rarely use metal tracks mostly because of the cost. MT are more than adequate in my opinion and can be made to look good with a bit of care and patience. Yes it's much easer to get the natural sag with metal tracks but I'm not willing to shell out +$40-$45 US. Maybe I'm cheap. Once you get the hang of the MT they are not as difficult or intimidating as they might seem. Bottom line I guess is if you want to spend the $$ then spring for the metal tracks, otherwise the MT will work nicely.
Posted: Friday, March 18, 2016 - 02:29 AM UTC
Roy,
Thank you for the insight into U.S. Armor and tracks. I'd had no idea.
Re: SpadeAce and Masterclub. I'll look into their availability here. Shipping costs from the U.S. Seem to have gone through the roof recently.
Re: Using Rubber band tracks. How do you get the paint to stay on? Or, do you do all of the painting and weathering after you've stretched them around the wheels and sprockets?
Again, everyone thank you for your input.
Gaz
Thank you for the insight into U.S. Armor and tracks. I'd had no idea.
Re: SpadeAce and Masterclub. I'll look into their availability here. Shipping costs from the U.S. Seem to have gone through the roof recently.
Re: Using Rubber band tracks. How do you get the paint to stay on? Or, do you do all of the painting and weathering after you've stretched them around the wheels and sprockets?
Again, everyone thank you for your input.
Gaz
Beastmaster
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Posted: Friday, March 18, 2016 - 05:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI love Friuls, no question, but I just don't have that kind of money to throw around. Magic tracks are an acceptable substitute, in my mind. Sometimes, I'll spring for Friuls if I really want to kick things up a notch, but just can't afford to do it that often.
Now if someone would just market the molds so I could cast my own links...
Because of the extra cost, it is a far closer question with magic tracks. With DS tracks and other single band tracks, I think it becomes much harder to make that argument.
I still like friuls compared to magic tracks, although Idid use magic tracks for an Sdkfz 7, as they have those rubber pads. It can be tedious to remove the slight pin marks on the back, and intend to use them for the marder I and panzer i panzerjaeger.
Another consideration is that I really enjoy making friul links. I can do it while watching television. I make pins by taking staples soaked in white vinegar (which removes the glue bonding them) and then twisting off the ends of each side. Sometimes you have to drill out the holes but always.
Friuls are also a lot more durable, and dont come readily come undone the way plastic or resin tracks can.
Plastic tracks shouldn't come undone. As long as you glue both surfaces and check there's not too little glue on them they should last for a very, very long time......if indefinitely.
Beastmaster
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Posted: Friday, March 18, 2016 - 05:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Regarding US AFVs.
The problem with Friuls on Shermans, for example, is that you have to use one kind of track part for the straightaways, and another for the curves. Since it's very difficult to know ahead of time how many tracks it will take for each individual model, I found that sort of problem too complicated to bother with. In the case of the Firefly I did for this build, I started with Friuls and then switched to the Tasca/Asuka "rubber band" tracks that came with the kit.
I used AFV Club separate links on my Shermans. Even though there's hardly any sag on Sherman tracks I think the AFV Club tracks look much better than the provided runbber band ones. They were quite tedious to build but starting is the hardest part and the tedious build was worth it in the end.
Posted: Friday, March 18, 2016 - 05:44 AM UTC
If you use acrylics, as I do, then except for Dragon Styrene tracks I don't know of a good way to keep paint on rubber band tracks. Less of an issue with enamels as I am told.