_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Tiger 2 Porsche version question
Chuck4
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 03:03 PM UTC
I am building a dragon tiger 2 with Porsche turret, which I like to improve with white metal tracks. Spade Ace offer 4-5 different versions of tiger 2 tracks. There is a single link version for 18 toothed drive sprocket, and several different double link versions. The double linked version seem to differ primarily in whether the connecting link is a single piece, or has separate center piece and little free floating connecting bars.

Can anyone tell me which might be appropriate for Porsche turret tiger II?

Also, did any Porsche tiger IIs see action without zimmerit?

Thanks in advance
urumomo
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 11:15 PM UTC
Pretty sure the Porsche variants all used the early 18 tooth sprocket
Mannloon
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: May 18, 2015
KitMaker: 99 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 06:56 AM UTC
All Porsche KT's had Zimmerit as far as I know. Also they tend to have the really complicated tracks. With one large track and like 5 pieces between with a medium piece and 3 small connectors. V1 in this diagram.

AFVFan
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 07:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Pretty sure the Porsche variants all used the early 18 tooth sprocket


All King Tigers used the Henschel designed hull, so they would have had the early 9 tooth sprockets. Best of my knowledge, the 18 tooth variant started around the end of '44. I believe some of the KT's were used as test platforms during the Ardennes offensive for them.

The Porsche designed KT hulls that were later turned into Elefants used 19 tooth sprockets.

I believe Adam is correct about the links.
urumomo
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 07:54 AM UTC
Yep ,sorry

I've got Porsche running gear on my mind
GeraldOwens
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 08:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Pretty sure the Porsche variants all used the early 18 tooth sprocket


All King Tigers used the Henschel designed hull, so they would have had the early 9 tooth sprockets. Best of my knowledge, the 18 tooth variant started around the end of '44. I believe some of the KT's were used as test platforms during the Ardennes offensive for them.

The Porsche designed KT hulls that were later turned into Elefants used 19 tooth sprockets.

I believe Adam is correct about the links.


The Elefant was based on the original Porsche Tiger prototype, not the King Tiger. "Porsche King Tiger" is a misnomer, and refers to the Henschel Tiger II chassis and the early Krupp turret with the rounded front, as used on the first 50 tanks. The production turret is often referred to as a "Henschel" turret, though again, it was a Krupp design.
All operational King Tigers with the early turret had Zimmerit.
Tojo72
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 09:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

All Porsche KT's had Zimmerit as far as I know. Also they tend to have the really complicated tracks. With one large track and like 5 pieces between with a medium piece and 3 small connectors. V1 in this diagram.



The metal version of these tracks are grueling,the plastic version is worse.I put them on my Porsche Jagdtiger,took quite awhile.
rfbaer
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 10:29 PM UTC
I did a set of the Friul "many-piece" tracks for a Tamiya KT Porsche turret, and although slow work, with the jig provided it went okay.
AFVFan
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 11:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The Elefant was based on the original Porsche Tiger prototype, not the King Tiger.


Indeed, correct. Must have had a brain cramp when I wrote that.
Chuck4
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Monday, March 21, 2016 - 03:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Pretty sure the Porsche variants all used the early 18 tooth sprocket


All King Tigers used the Henschel designed hull, so they would have had the early 9 tooth sprockets. Best of my knowledge, the 18 tooth variant started around the end of '44. I believe some of the KT's were used as test platforms during the Ardennes offensive for them.

The Porsche designed KT hulls that were later turned into Elefants used 19 tooth sprockets.

I believe Adam is correct about the links.


I was under the impression very early king Tigers had 18 toothed sprockets, which drove double linked tracks. Mid production king tigers had 9 tooth sprockets, which also drove double linked tracks. Late production King tigers reverted back to 18 th sprockets, but this time driving single linked tracks.

By double linked tracks I mean every other track link on one side is identical, where as single linked track means every link on one side are identical.
rfbaer
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Monday, March 21, 2016 - 03:44 AM UTC
^ That was my understanding too.
AFVFan
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Monday, March 21, 2016 - 09:11 AM UTC
The prototypes, like the one in the Bovington museum, had 18 tooth sprockets. From what I've read though, and seen in photos, this was changed to the 9 tooth for production. The tank also has single link tracks on it, which seems to be a departure from normal early production.

If I didn't know better (and honestly I don't), I'd think they slapped an early turret on a late hull. To be honest, I've run across enough museum misrepresentations researching various tanks to make me doubt what's presented.

Maybe one of the real Tiger experts can shed some light on the problem.
Mannloon
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: May 18, 2015
KitMaker: 99 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 02:57 AM UTC
There were 4 types of sprockets. An 18, two different 9 tooth (which had to do with offsetting the bolts from the teeth on the later) and then an 18 again. In March 1945 a new single link track type was introduced.

So what you guys have been saying was your understanding is correct.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 05:41 AM UTC
My understanding of the Bovington KT is that it was found with the multi-part tracks, but later "borrowed" the single-link types from another wrecked KT at the same test facility, so best not to use it as the basis for WWII gospel. Also, isn't it a mild-steel prototype, rather than an armoured production vehicle? The 88mm gun is another "borrowed" element, as the entire gun mount was removed by the British for testing at some point (along with the TC's cupola!) and the museum had to find another tube to fill the hole - it is propped up on blocks inside the turret.
AFVFan
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 08:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My understanding of the Bovington KT is that it was found with the multi-part tracks, but later "borrowed" the single-link types from another wrecked KT at the same test facility, so best not to use it as the basis for WWII gospel. Also, isn't it a mild-steel prototype, rather than an armoured production vehicle? The 88mm gun is another "borrowed" element, as the entire gun mount was removed by the British for testing at some point (along with the TC's cupola!) and the museum had to find another tube to fill the hole - it is propped up on blocks inside the turret.


Exactly why I don't totally trust museum pieces.
 _GOTOTOP