Agreed on the number of track blocks. I only assembel enough t make a tight run.As this is "live" track, I will actually glue the top fun,to keep excess sag out.
For track, I will build the Academy A2 as "As Delivered" in Jan 1976,at Vilseck.I may use the Dragon DS chevron tracks for this one, depending how those fit around the sprocket. Or use the kit ones.There will not be a back deck box, or extra oil (5 ga) cans on the bustle rack behind the loader's hatch.
The Dragon A2 willl be mid-use (ca.1977) It will have the back deck box, octogon pad track,and 2x4 between the headlights.
The AFV A2 will have all the final bells and whistles, I will add the 2 5 gallon containers behind the loader's hatch.

Ok so after some more tinkering- I took out 1 additional shoe per side. Fit looks better- a bit more stress on the rear post and final drive (on the model)-but scale tension looks better.

Carl, Thank you and everyone else for some great info. I went with AFV A2 since it seems to be the most accurate. I've been modeling aircraft for ages but made the flip to armor about a year ago and love it ! I'm learning a lot from this and other threads,thanks again.

Carl,

Question on external storage- what did you normally put inside the turret baskets vs. piled on/strapped? The baskets seem small and oddly shaped so difficult to get lots of large items in there?

Starting to lay out my stowage and start attaching.

Bret, our crews were able to stow alot in the baskets.Behind me(gunner) I had plenty of room for an ordinary duffle bag. farther back,on the same side, the TC could put a smaller bag.
to the left of the ventilator, 2 duffle bags could fit side by side.
Behind the loader, was room for 1 more duffle bag usually,in the gap between the grenade launchers and turret,we often woul hang our galoshes boots,big rubber things which fit over our regular shoes.
Sleeping bag rolls, I would hang mine,on the front edge of the basket facing towards my hatch.They had a weird strap system, which allowed us to strpa them in many ways.Another sleeping bag roll, would go in that small open area,behind the searchlight mount on the basket. The opening was only large enough for that.
Odften, my crew would strap 2 sleeping rolls to and on the seachlight mount on the back, or on that metal frame to the left of the ventilator. We NEVER put anything on the sides of the rack, as just passing through the bush, would strip that stuff off.
Once we started tying down an empty ammo box,over where a travel lock would have been on the back deck, we could often put some items like bags in there.
My tank, strapped the camo net bag ontop of the missle transmitter housing, using the two lifting rings on top there. Sometimes we would put the long narrow bag with the camo net poles standing up in unused bustle rack area, or across the back of the turret, behind the cupola.
By '77 ish, we had added 2 5 gallon oil cans behind the loader,on the outside of the bustle rack.One, in the mirror position of the standard water can on the gunner's side, and the other on the face of the rack behind the loader's hatch.

Carl- super. Thanks that rundown will help- although model plastic does not compress like a real bag....

Bret,I had some resin dufflebags from a Verlinden set for a 113 or something.And I made enough copies to populate the bustle rack.

OK- will dig through the spares box- I think I had that set as well.

Question of the Water cans on the side racks of the turret- one or two (i.e. one each side)

Brett,I can only speak for 1/37th Armor (1st AD)
As deliveered,a 5 gallon water can was on the front outer side of the bustle rack,like in all kits. Later, about 6 months or more in, we added another pair of 5 gallon oil carrying cans (different spout & cap). One was on the outer front edge,behind the loader's hatch.The second was on the front edge directly behind the loader's hatch
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/TankCarl/oilcanz.jpg" BORDER="0">[/img]

Here is a rear-view of 1/32AR M60A2 at Hohenfels. The two 5 gallon jerry cans on the rear finders are to oil: one for transmission and one for engine. The tank is probably from Bravo Company.

Gary, were those in regulation holders? Or, were they strapped in.Somehow our unit got official holder which could be bolted to the bustle rack, just like the original one.

"Official"? I really don't know. They looked like the jerry can mounts that were on the back of jeeps. As I recall, we drilled holes in the fenders and bolted them on. 1/32AR had them as well as 3/32AR. 3/32AR had M60A1s. So it must have been a 3rd Brigade standard more than something reserved for the M60A2s.

The rear fenders were somewhat of a problem. When they broke and fell off, we had to literally shovel mud off of the back deck. To replace the "missing" fenders, we used to make fenders out of 55 gallon oil drums. 40 mike-mike boxes bolted to the turret rack, 55 gallon oil drums for fenders, duffel bugs hanging everywhere, we looked like a bunch gypsy wagons when compared to the clean lines of a Bundeswehr Leopard.

You mentioned the camouflage nets. I forget about those. We were always losing the poles and sometimes the nets.

The searchlight was a problem when mounted on the back of the turret. I remember watching one roll down a hill with the 2nd platoon's LT running after it. The searchlight hit a tree and popped right off of its mounting brackets.

Since I am planning on doing all 3 manufacturers kits, and I will have many spare parts from Tamiya kits being scrapped,I may do one, with 2 searchlights.We would grab an extra searchlight, when we had searchlight duty at Graf, and have it on the back mount.
Don't forget, when "new" all lbustle racks had canvas tie down straps for going over the tops of each opening in the rack.There were footman l;oops on the turret, and the straps would loop out to the top rail of the bustle rack and back. After about 1 year, 1 or 2 of the straps would go "missing".

Another M60A2 operations question- it seem in a lot of the pictures, the gun tube is always a bit downward tilted. Is that just the way the system set up?

Bret, relative to the front face of the gunmount,that is a perpendicular angle.But, while in the motorpool, or driving around, we usually had the gun depressed (-10 degrees). This would give us some room in the turret, under the gun to place things. There was a ready rack beneath the breech,with the loader's control panel on one side, and the ballistic computer on the other. Fortunately for us, the 152 ready rack units were slightly larger than a loaf of bread..........

Ah- ok that makes sense. The DEF model mantlet parts when assembled gives a slight depressed angle for the tube.

Maybe the gun is feeling a little sad or blue...

There was another reason why the gun launcher was always supposed to be pointing down in the motor pool: rust. The gun launcher had a screwed breech. If the breech was closed and the gun launcher was not pointed down, the breech could rust shut. It happened to 1/32AR once and 122 Maintenance Battalion had to replace the gun launcher (and breech). Needless to say, it only happened once in 1/32AR because the incident become a legend.

The SOP for 1/32AR was that M60A2s in the motor pool had their gun launchers down and over the front left fender with the breech open. The officers and NCOs would constantly check that the SOP was respected by removing the rubber plug from the muzzle and shining a flashlight up the gun launcher. If the breech was closed, it could result in an Article 15.

By the way, those rubber muzzle plugs would get lost and they were a difficult item to procure. So, crews would use the neoprene bags that were on the 152mm conventional ammunition as muzzle covers.

Hello Carl, Gary, et al

By the time I was stationed at Kirch-Gons, the A2's had been replaced by A1's and the tankers that I spoke with seemed to be pretty happy about it.

If you don't mind, how did you guys feel about the A2? I think that most of us develop pretty strong feelings for our equipment, especially rifles and tanks. Based on your training and experiences during that time frame, did you feel confident about taking the vehicle into combat? What do you think that you would have improved if that had been possible at the time?

Respectfully,
Allen

Gary,you are VERY correct.
Um, one year we were on a field exercise, Most of the time the gun was down.Sometimes up . And, usually with the breech open. At one point during the exercise, we tried to open the breech,and that obturator seal ring had gotten rusted between the breech and the gun tube. OOOp.s
Ditto on the neoprene barrier bag replacing the muzzle plug. What would often happen was another tank would lose theirs, or send it down range.At night that crew might do a midnight requisition. We learned to carve our tank number into the back side,and could usually reclaim our errant part.
Waiting for Dragon or someone to make a DS muzzle plug!
Allen,
As a rule we liked the A2's because my era of tankers drew them "new" from Vilseck. As time went by, and repair parts were harder to get ( the gov't Knew they were being replaced) later crews possibly didn't like them as much.
In 1/37th, we'd put the gun over the right front fender brace, centered between the 2 bolts on the brush guard. I assume this gave us a quicker access to the grill doors on top to open and check the oil level, and to fill the fuel tank.

This has been a great thread and very helpful in my build (the Academy M60A2 with DEF Model detail set). Although we seem to have gotten away from Carl's initial goal.

It has been useful for the insights into the system and-some of the photos and recollections have been great.

I look forward to the next update on the kits.

Polite Answer: The M60A2 was a fielded proof of concept weapons system that was outstanding when everything worked but very rarely was that the case.

Impolite Answer: The M60A2 was a piece of junk.

I will send you and Carl a longer answer off-line.

Regardless of the quality of the M60A2, I am glad to see that there some good models of this tank. I am going to build one.

Thank you, Carl.

I will be posting more pictures shortly, as I put the PE into each kit's bustle racks. On the AFV kit there is a near complete driver's compartment, though I will leave the hatch closed.If you do use it, there is a cylindical object to the driver's right. I think it is the heater, ours were more at an angle, hung from the front slope.

Hello Gary,

I really appreciate the time and effort you put into answering my questions. Your observations as a tanker would have been most welcome in the most recent publications on the subject.

Respectfully,
Allen