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Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
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REVIEW
Soviet MT-LB
brian638
Joined: July 24, 2004
KitMaker: 318 posts
Armorama: 263 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 02:06 AM UTC
Ian Barraclough gives his verdict on the contents of Trumpeter's release of the MT-LB.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Link to Item
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
rogerjo1
Joined: November 12, 2010
KitMaker: 950 posts
Armorama: 905 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 02:30 AM UTC
Yes this is a very nice kit, just one bad thing is the tracks, i hate how they have made them with all these parts...it's a little to much...
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 04:21 AM UTC
That engine looks like a full kit in itself.
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 443 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 12:16 PM UTC
One PE fret says SA-13 
That is reassuring news. I would not have the patience for 1100 parts though, especially the tracks.
That is reassuring news. I would not have the patience for 1100 parts though, especially the tracks.
dukw
Joined: March 18, 2003
KitMaker: 263 posts
Armorama: 228 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 01:13 PM UTC
Yes, a nice kit except the overdone tracks. I hope this will not become standard. A other setback to me is the missing of any information regarding the decals. I found nothing for what units and using Countries the decals stand for.
Happy modelling
Harald
Happy modelling
Harald
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 02:39 PM UTC
I guess the "H" camo version markings are for a Ukrainian Army MT-LB (blue & yellow flag). The white stripes of the "G" color scheme remind me of those used on Ukrainian armor during the recent fightings there :
H.P.
H.P.
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 03:11 PM UTC
The tracks are the same style as their PT-76/BTR-50 tracks that have been sold separately for years. Either that or solid guide horns, I guess.
Yes, there are a lot of parts, but you don't have to add the complete interior and show all the hatches open . . . That will probably cut out about half the work right there.
I don't like their PE swimming vanes. This is very similar to the construction of the Eduard pieces. A part like this needs small tabs and slots to allow the pieces to lock together for soldering (like the real vanes). Or they could include a set of jigs and fixtures to allow building them . . . PE designers needs to start thinking along the lines of adding various elements to aid assembly that get clipped or ground off after it's all together.
KL
Yes, there are a lot of parts, but you don't have to add the complete interior and show all the hatches open . . . That will probably cut out about half the work right there.
I don't like their PE swimming vanes. This is very similar to the construction of the Eduard pieces. A part like this needs small tabs and slots to allow the pieces to lock together for soldering (like the real vanes). Or they could include a set of jigs and fixtures to allow building them . . . PE designers needs to start thinking along the lines of adding various elements to aid assembly that get clipped or ground off after it's all together.
KL
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 443 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 04:09 PM UTC
I think it would be beneficial to market these kits in two versions (with and w/o interior) since normally I do not present my kits open (and probably many others agree), and don't want to pay the extra $$$ for the detailed interior, engine, transmission, etc. that I am not going to build anyway. Just my 10 cents...
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 06:07 PM UTC
Well, just lost all that I previously wrote.
Nice in-box review of a nice kit.
Agree the PE needs to be better engineered for building.
High parts count should mean high detail, what we have been asking for.
Tracks need to be worked on by Trumpeter. They can make a workable single piece, highly detailed MT-LB track...they have done similar tracks in other kits.
Looking forward to the MT-LB series they will be sending us over the years.
Nice in-box review of a nice kit.
Agree the PE needs to be better engineered for building.
High parts count should mean high detail, what we have been asking for.
Tracks need to be worked on by Trumpeter. They can make a workable single piece, highly detailed MT-LB track...they have done similar tracks in other kits.
Looking forward to the MT-LB series they will be sending us over the years.
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 11:48 AM UTC
I guess the separate guide horns are due to some technical limitation as the real ones are not flat.
From the pictures Frenchy posted, the Friul set is a perfect match. And in my opinion from my experience, they are worth the 30 euros.
However, considering the price Trumpeter set for this MT-LB, it could be a bit stiff in the end, especially if you don't intend to build the interior.
Olivier
From the pictures Frenchy posted, the Friul set is a perfect match. And in my opinion from my experience, they are worth the 30 euros.
However, considering the price Trumpeter set for this MT-LB, it could be a bit stiff in the end, especially if you don't intend to build the interior.
Olivier
Hellrabbit
Joined: June 28, 2015
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 09:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, just lost all that I previously wrote.
Nice in-box review of a nice kit.
Agree the PE needs to be better engineered for building.
High parts count should mean high detail, what we have been asking for.
Tracks need to be worked on by Trumpeter. They can make a workable single piece, highly detailed MT-LB track...they have done similar tracks in other kits.
Looking forward to the MT-LB series they will be sending us over the years.
If I am not wrong this kit includes the same kind of click track as 2S3 offers before. As for the teeth. We have already seen what would happened if you molded those teeth directly on the tracks(look at Meng Shilka....) so I don't think anyone can offer a better and cost-effect balanced solution for the in-kit track link....just my 2 cents here. May my comments won't hurt anyone.
avenue
Joined: May 25, 2013
KitMaker: 544 posts
Armorama: 542 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 10:03 AM UTC
the big problem was the track.why don't trumpheter mold the teeth and track link together?
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 10:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
the big problem was the track.why don't trumpheter mold the teeth and track link together?
Because each track link has a guide horn with an indentantation on each side, so traditional moulding methods will not work for such a complex shape.
Hellrabbit
Joined: June 28, 2015
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 12:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Textthe big problem was the track.why don't trumpheter mold the teeth and track link together?
Because each track link has a guide horn with an indentantation on each side, so traditional moulding methods will not work for such a complex shape.
bingo！
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Monday, May 02, 2016 - 07:45 AM UTC
I disagree. Trumpeter has done complex, 2 guide horn tracks. They just don't seem to want to invest in making the tracks easier to build.
Maybe they have a no-compete deal with Fruil?
Maybe they have a no-compete deal with Fruil?
Hellrabbit
Joined: June 28, 2015
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 03:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I disagree. Trumpeter has done complex, 2 guide horn tracks. They just don't seem to want to invest in making the tracks easier to build.
Maybe they have a no-compete deal with Fruil?
Have you ever thought about how much it will cost? If everybody wants to pay 100 bucks for the kit. Sure thing they will. Reality is cruel.... People who don't want invest more money, deal with the track link, just time consuming....people who wants invest money. Get the fruit. Win win.
Klaus-Adler
Campaigns Administrator
Joined: June 08, 2015
KitMaker: 1,505 posts
Armorama: 840 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 09:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think it would be beneficial to market these kits in two versions (with and w/o interior) since normally I do not present my kits open (and probably many others agree), and don't want to pay the extra $$$ for the detailed interior, engine, transmission, etc. that I am not going to build anyway. Just my 10 cents...
I agree
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 06:13 PM UTC
Knowing enough about engineering, milling, and production I can say that Trumpeter could very easily do the job if they wanted to considering some of the tracks sets they have already done, without loss of detail. The tracks in the ZSD90 kit are a good example.
Now, price differential between China and the USA, where I live, may be part of the problem. For example, the Type 83 SPG in China (the newer tooling) sells for $42 here in the USA. In China it is $16.
Now, price differential between China and the USA, where I live, may be part of the problem. For example, the Type 83 SPG in China (the newer tooling) sells for $42 here in the USA. In China it is $16.
andymacrae
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 01:39 AM UTC
[quote
For example, the Type 83 SPG in China (the newer tooling) sells for $42 here in the USA. In China it is $16. [/quote]
Isn't it just the old tooling without the interior parts?
Andy
For example, the Type 83 SPG in China (the newer tooling) sells for $42 here in the USA. In China it is $16. [/quote]
Isn't it just the old tooling without the interior parts?
Andy
Bizarre
Joined: July 20, 2010
KitMaker: 1,709 posts
Armorama: 1,581 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 01:58 AM UTC
Not Mig Productions, but Ammo of Mig 
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 05:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Knowing enough about engineering, milling, and production I can say that Trumpeter could very easily do the job if they wanted to considering some of the tracks sets they have already done, without loss of detail. The tracks in the ZSD90 kit are a good example.
You mean the Hobby Boss ZSD-90? Those tracks have only a center guide, plus they are plain, not hollowed out like those on the MT-LB.
KL
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 07:02 AM UTC
Kurt is correct. What I get for posting so early. Sigh.
I was looking at Trumpeters WZ505 kit, basically a BMP-1. I have also looked at all the different MT-LB track I have: Trumpeter link-n-length (2S1 kit), Trumpeter workable indi-link, Fruil metal tracks, and Master Club resin tracks.
The depth of the guide horn indention, and the spacing of the guide horns on the track, are very similar to the BMP-1 track. (I know there is a lot of belly-aching about the BMP-1 track staying together, but with a thin coat of primer things work much better. I have had good luck with the kits I have.)
Guide horns aside, there is no reason I know of that Trumpeter could not add the simple bump/indent system to make all single-pin style tracks workable.
And I do not think that making the tracks in one piece, and workable, will cause the price to skyrocket. I simply cannot justify the cost to production ratio unless they really are making molds for only a 10,000 kit run, which is ludicrous.
Maybe I am just expecting too much.
I was looking at Trumpeters WZ505 kit, basically a BMP-1. I have also looked at all the different MT-LB track I have: Trumpeter link-n-length (2S1 kit), Trumpeter workable indi-link, Fruil metal tracks, and Master Club resin tracks.
The depth of the guide horn indention, and the spacing of the guide horns on the track, are very similar to the BMP-1 track. (I know there is a lot of belly-aching about the BMP-1 track staying together, but with a thin coat of primer things work much better. I have had good luck with the kits I have.)
Guide horns aside, there is no reason I know of that Trumpeter could not add the simple bump/indent system to make all single-pin style tracks workable.
And I do not think that making the tracks in one piece, and workable, will cause the price to skyrocket. I simply cannot justify the cost to production ratio unless they really are making molds for only a 10,000 kit run, which is ludicrous.
Maybe I am just expecting too much.
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 07:14 AM UTC
No, the turret and a few pieces are new tooling. The interior IS no longer included in the newer version. I have a review of both the old and new kit, side by side, on my Chinese Vehicle Facebook page.
Isn't it just the old tooling without the interior parts?
Andy[/quote]
Quoted Text
[quote
For example, the Type 83 SPG in China (the newer tooling) sells for $42 here in the USA. In China it is $16.
Isn't it just the old tooling without the interior parts?
Andy[/quote]
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 07:26 PM UTC
And I killed the thread. Sorry. 
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