I was just wondering why more and more .50's ( on the humvee for example) are being replaced by the Mk19 grenade thrower ?
#:-)

thanx,
Marc

IMHO, it's probably because it's a better anti-personel weapon than the .50 cal (which, likewise, fares better against soft-skinned and lightly-armored vehicles). In the ambushes and guerilla warfare in Iraq, firing the MK.19 into likely hiding places would probably be much more effective than "spraying n' praying" with the .50. There IS the issue of collateral damage to civilians, though....

The .50 cal is still an effective weapon, however against ambushes particularly in places like Iraq the Mk. 19 is a very effective weapon system. The Iraqi's (at least when I was in-country) liked to use the RPG from behind a berm, the .50 cal couldn't penetrate the berm, but the Mk. 19 could be lobbed over the berm. The Iraqi's called it "The Little Fat Gun That BLows Off Our Legs" and tended to leave convoys where a number of Mk. 19's were mounted alone. That may be why you are seeing a larger number of Mk. 19's.

The Mk 19 has a longer max effective range than the M2, and it is better as an area suppression weapon.

Mk 19
Maximum effective range: 1600 meters

M2
Maximum effective range: 2000 meters with tripod mount

I've actually seen humvees with both a Mk-19 and another light 7.62 machine gun on a second mount behind the gunner. I'm not sure whether or not this is only a spec ops mod but this would cover both the capabilities of a grenade launcher and the versatility of a machine gun.
Kyle

Mk 19 Grenade launcher has a range of 1600m?????? That would be a major arc on it to get a range like that.....considering that the ammo for that is the same as that of the M203 launcher, as well as the firing process....and I am sure it doesn't have a range of that much.

Edit:

Damn I stand corrected....effective range of 1640 yards and max range of over 2200 yards....that would still be some kind of arc for a projectile like that!!! And they aren't the same as the M203....I thought they were just the M203 rounds linked together...but they are a much longer casing.

Seems to be a common option to give close range capability.
http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Jul2003/030722-A-8887A-011.html

Paul

The .50 cal is a holdover from the days when our forces still needed defense from a viable air threat. While it was used against ground targets, its primary mission for many years was as an anti-air defensive weapon.

The Mk-19 (still technically classified as a machine gun due to its rate of fire) is a US Navy designed weapon. We started getting these into the Army inventory in the early 90s, although many units didn't even field them until well into the 90s. The Mk-19's purpose is anti-personnel. It would be fairly useless against any type of aerial attacker that traveled at speed.

Since our current situation shows the need for anti-personnel defense is greater than anti-air defense, the .50 cals are giving way to the Mk-19. A traditional machine gun still has its uses on the modern battlefield. It has a higher rate of fire, it is more accurate due to its direct fire capabilities, it has greater ammunition capacity, easier to reload, easier to transport and use when dismounted (SAW or M60) and you can engage specific targets with less danger to bystanders.

Time of flight would preclude firing at anything but a stationary target at that range

I've always wondered why there keept on replacing those .50's.

~Katyusha~

A brief history

.....and an awesome weapon to fire.

Want to add some personal knowledge on the MK 19 mod 3, being an retired MK 19 instructor. Here's some data I remember

The US Army describes it as a 40mm Granade Machinegun. Fires the 40mm grenade is the same type that is used on the AH-1 Cobra. Weighs in around 75 pounds.
RANGES: The MK19 has 2 effective ranges
1. Point Target (bunker) is 1600 meters
2. AREA target (such as troops in the open) is 2212 meters.
KILL RADIUS: 5m
RATE OF FIRE:
1. Sustain: 60 Rounds Per Minute
2. CYCLIC: 400 RPM (plus)
PENATRATES: 2 inches of Armor Plating
TYPES of ROUNDS: High Explosive, High Explosive, Duel Purpose

Hope this info helps

Thanks Manchu. I knew I wasn't hallucinating when I learned that at Anti Armor Leaders Course. I don't think the Instructors at Fort Benning just make crap up, and Having FIRED the Mk 19 a handful of times and the Ma Deuce more times than I care to remember, I know I don't hallucinate when I have to adjust the elevation on the sights.

As far as the rounds, they are much different than the M203. Mk 19 fires a High Velocity 40mm, the M203 doesn't.

MP units were the first to mount both the Mk19 and a light machine on their HUMMVs. It was done on "home-made" mounts in the 101st MP Battalion, 101st ABN DIV back in '94-'95. They use a Mk19 and M60 (7.62mm) combo. The MPs provided convoy and rear area security and as such could face a wide variety of targets. Having both weapons readily available gave greater flexiblity and faster response times.

Same here, following its fielding around 91; while being assigned to the AT Plt. HHC 3 Bn 17 Inf, 7 Inf. Div. (Light), I fired the MK 19 to many times to count. I remember firing it at its max effective ranges and watching the rounds go down range. THat made it real nice for experience gunners, since it allowed them to make adjustments based on the previous rounds flight. THouhg it was a mother to moved, eight wise, I still loved that weapon. Wished it was fielded prior to being deployed to Panama during Operation Just Cause.

True the rounds are a higher velocity 40mm then the M203, but works the same way as the M203. Furthermore, to obtain the range it has; required the MK 19 to use the AH-1 Cobra 40mm.

Thanx for all the info. My next Humvee's will be equiped with the Mk19

Marc