News
Dragon: A New German SPG is Almost Here
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 02:18 AM UTC
Dragon has announced that their kit of a German SPG is ready for imminent release, the 1/35 5cm PaK 38 auf Pz.Kpfw.II. They've released some additional pictures of the various details.
Read the Full News StoryIf you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
United Kingdom
Joined: November 10, 2013
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 03:15 AM UTC
I will wait until it appears cheap on ebay......
tatbaqui
News Writer
#040
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 06, 2007
KitMaker: 2,713 posts
Armorama: 2,451 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 03:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I will wait until it appears cheap on ebay......
Indeed, that is the way to go.
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: September 29, 2005
KitMaker: 75 posts
Armorama: 74 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 01:56 PM UTC
I agree. actually too much money for their kits. additionally I would have to buy indy tracks and a metal barrel (weren't these included in former times ??). I ever wanted to build this gun.
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 02:47 AM UTC
0I've always wanted to build this variant. I have a reference file started all ready, w/ pics and data, so this will work out GREAT. Good Timing
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 03:29 AM UTC
Not much of a data file! Apparently there were only no more than 5 built as field shop conversions.
Australia
Joined: April 25, 2012
KitMaker: 69 posts
Armorama: 69 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 03:37 AM UTC
slug955
ebay is not that cheap from shop sources
Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 13, 2003
KitMaker: 143 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 03:48 AM UTC
FWIW, I posted the following in an earlier thread (May 15) on this subject.
In my file compiled to produce the box illustration for this kit, I found a dozen photos of this vehicle taken by combat photographer Falk in 1943. The photos are described as "Russland".
Most shots deal with the fitting of the gun while several show the left side as it was completing conversion (welds are unfinished, etc.) It appears to have been a Panzer IIC that it was based on. In the background are several Marder II giving the image the appearance of a workshop.
Two other unattributed photos show such a completed vehicle in service. There are enough differences between these two photos to suggest that more than one were produced but it could be just as easily explained that these were further upgrades of the much photographed vehicle.
One source mentions that this vehicle served with 23rd Panzer Division in the fall of 1943. This would put them near the Dneipre river in southern Ukraine. The 23rd had 128 Panzerjager unit with 14 75mm self-propelled vehicles, possibly Marder II based on Panzer II chassis.
FWIW
Ron Volstad
United Kingdom
Joined: November 10, 2013
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 04:31 AM UTC
United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 07:06 AM UTC
They can do this paper panzer but couldn't do a respectable Wespe?
Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 08:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
They can do this paper panzer but couldn't do a respectable Wespe?
True, except this is not a paper panzer being as at least one was built. These days Dragon seems more interested in repops and kits of one-offs over completely new vehicles that saw real numbers. Maybe they feel the Tamiya kit is good enough.
On the Campaign Trail:
Tank Destroyer 2020
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 02:27 PM UTC
Andreas and Tat, I fully agree with you. I've got a lot of Dragon vehicles in my stash and not one of them is from a shop. All of them are off ebay for less than half price. Their kits are just too expensive these days for what they are. Yes, they're quite nicely detailed kits but I've had fit issues, crap instructions with all of them etc which takes the fun out of a build for me and with that price tag I just think "I'll wait until I can get it cheap". If they made their kits with the ease of assembly, fit etc of Tamiya but with their current level of detail I may not mind paying the extra but as it stands ebay everytime.
As Shell says Dragon seem to be more interested in repops and vehicles that were prototypes/one offs that never reached a battlefield. From a personal perspective I always think of displaying them in dios, big or small, so a one off that never left a testing ground is of no use to me, pretty much the same as the paper panzers. I'd sooner see nice versions of vehicles that were used in combat in numbers and there are literally 1000's of vehicles to choose from for the Germans. Dragon appears to be one company that doesn't listen to what modellers have to say otherwise they'd have sorted out their instructions and release kits that modellers actually want to build rather than some obscure vehicle that not that many people are aware of or was that crap it never entered service
Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result.
- Winston Churchill
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 02:30 PM UTC
To be honest the best bit for me of their kits is Ron's artwork. I'd rather pay £50 for a decent sized print of his boxart than for the AFV in the box
Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result.
- Winston Churchill
Spain / España
Joined: November 18, 2004
KitMaker: 456 posts
Armorama: 333 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 03:03 PM UTC
Can someone tell me where can I buy the 5 cm metallic ammo boxes included in this kit?
Thanks in advance,
Angel
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 03:25 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'd sooner see nice versions of vehicles that were used in combat in numbers and there are literally 1000's of vehicles to choose from for the Germans.
No, there aren't. The versions of AFVs "used in combat in numbers" by the Germans is probably less than 50. Add in softskins and the total is still probably much less than 100.
KL
United Kingdom
Joined: November 10, 2013
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 03:59 PM UTC
What annoys me most about Dragon is that most producers charge less for older kits. Dragons just get more expensive, even those of questionable quality. Take for example their Leopold and Karl. Both are inferior to the Trumpeter kits (see PMMS) but a good 25% more expensive. Madness.
Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 05:02 PM UTC
Given Dragon's less than stellar reputation over the years, this can be a kit that is purchased way later (EBay) than sooner since I've got a stash that still counts over 150 kits ( and donated over 150 kits to military charities over the last 6 months). Besides, I haven't gotten out of my M47 building binge yet!
IPMS number 506
AMPS number 711
United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 05:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
As Shell says Dragon seem to be more interested in repops and vehicles that were prototypes/one offs that never reached a battlefield. From a personal perspective I always think of displaying them in dios, big or small, so a one off that never left a testing ground is of no use to me, pretty much the same as the paper panzers. I'd sooner see nice versions of vehicles that were used in combat in numbers and there are literally 1000's of vehicles to choose from for the Germans. Dragon appears to be one company that doesn't listen to what modellers have to say otherwise they'd have sorted out their instructions and release kits that modellers actually want to build rather than some obscure vehicle that not that many people are aware of or was that crap it never entered service
I don't remember the last time when dragon produced a totally new AFV kit that was in most ways the equal of their own kits from around 2005-2008 in terms of quality and value. They are definitely a company run by bean counters interested only in milking past investment and residual brand equity.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 06:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
[Dragon is] definitely a company run by bean counters interested only in milking past investment and residual brand equity.
Can you list the model companies that
aren't interested in maximizing their income by using their existing capital and assets?
KL
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 06:14 AM UTC
WARNING - Some posts in this thread have broken one of the rules for posting in this forum, as seen
here:
"Before anyone can post that a company is making too much profit or that the cost of their products isn't "justified", they must first post certified reports of the company's annual debt service payments and capital depreciation charges."
Thank you,
KL
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 04:17 PM UTC
Kurt, I may have exaggerated the figure as 1000's but it is most definitely in the hundreds. When you consider that there were 26 different versions of the Sdkfz 251 alone in service in different roles it's obvious that your figure of less than 100 is well out if we're being pedantic about numbers. Dragon have produced a fair few of these but there are still several versions like the 251/8 ambulance which haven't been produced. Once you take into consideration softskins, artillery pieces, captured vehicles that were modified by the Germans for use on the battlefield there are plenty of new subjects that they could do but don't.
As for sniping about us complaining about Dragon's prices we are entitled to comment on that as we live in democracies and as this is an online community forum it is a topic of discussion. We happen to think that they are overpriced compared to other manufacturers producing kits of equal quality. Naturally we have a choice whether we choose to pay full price for them or not which we have said we avoid paying full price as in OUR opinion they are overpriced for what they are. It's an opinion which we are entitled to express. You are not an admin or a moderator so are not in a position to tell us what we can or cannot say. You are the same as us position wise. If we think something is expensive who are you to tell us it's not? We all have different incomes and monetary values are subjective according to how much money one person earns. Your word is not gospel despite what you apparently think.
Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result.
- Winston Churchill
Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 04:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Kurt, I may have exaggerated the figure as 1000's but it is most definitely in the hundreds. When you consider that there were 26 different versions of the Sdkfz 251 alone in service in different roles it's obvious that your figure of less than 100 is well out if we're being pedantic about numbers. Dragon have produced a fair few of these but there are still several versions like the 251/8 ambulance which haven't been produced. Once you take into consideration softskins, artillery pieces, captured vehicles that were modified by the Germans for use on the battlefield there are plenty of new subjects that they could do but don't.
As for sniping about us complaining about Dragon's prices we are entitled to comment on that as we live in democracies and as this is an online community forum it is a topic of discussion. We happen to think that they are overpriced compared to other manufacturers producing kits of equal quality. Naturally we have a choice whether we choose to pay full price for them or not which we have said we avoid paying full price as in OUR opinion they are overpriced for what they are. It's an opinion which we are entitled to express. You are not an admin or a moderator so are not in a position to tell us what we can or cannot say. You are the same as us position wise. If we think something is expensive who are you to tell us it's not? We all have different incomes and monetary values are subjective according to how much money one person earns. Your word is not gospel despite what you apparently think.
Here, Here!
IPMS number 506
AMPS number 711
United Kingdom
Joined: November 10, 2013
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 04:42 PM UTC
Nothing wrong with price comparison. There are web sites out there making a nice living on it. IF money is no object then you are at full liberty to pay over the odds, the rest of us are more frugal...
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 07:37 PM UTC
Talk about over-pricing: Dragon's 1/350 Scharnhorst is roughly $160 USD; one 1/35 Tiger I is about $80 - $90 USD. By material volume, Scharnhorst = roughly 4 - 5 Tiger kits. So why doesn't Scharnhorst cost $325? Or, more to the point, why doesn't Tiger kits cost $35 - $40? It will be interesting to see how much Dragon is going to charge for their upcoming 1/35 AT-AT (Starwars vehicle) as it will require roughly 25 times the plastic of a Tiger kit.
United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Monday, May 23, 2016 - 09:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
[Dragon is] definitely a company run by bean counters interested only in milking past investment and residual brand equity.
Can you list the model companies that aren't interested in maximizing their income by using their existing capital and assets?
KL
Some companies, tamiya for example, seem to also exhibit interest in investing in high quality new tooling on an ongoing basis, so as to ensure a continuous supply of golden eggs as oppose to dragon's efforts to kill the goose and get at only the eggs currently in the goose.
