AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
CO2 Guys
69mudbone
Joined: April 26, 2016
KitMaker: 362 posts
Armorama: 285 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 01:27 AM UTC
Hey Guys, any one using CO2 bottles for airbrush.If so, pros and cons?? I am looking to buy new rig. I am currently using my old Diaphragm and that thing is a beast! I have been absent from hobby many years so I am searching. Comments most welcomed
Charleygnarlyp290
Joined: May 07, 2013
KitMaker: 105 posts
Armorama: 85 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 03:14 AM UTC
Yessir! I am using a C02 bottle and I will most likely never go back to a compressor again.
Pros:
Totally clean
No noise except for the hiss of gas coming out of the airbrush
Minimal fluctuation in pressure (I will explain below)
No need for moisture traps
Perfectly safe for indoor use
Cons:
Bottle has to be exchanged when it is empty
I switched over from a compressor a couple of years ago and have been nothing but happy with my decision. Some people have argued that it is kind of a hassle to take it in for exchange when it is out, but I can paint quite a few models before I have to take it back, and the place I use I pass by for other things, so not that big of a deal.
Some have also questioned the safety of a compressed gas bottle in the house. There are many people who use them for homemade beer or something and that doesn't seem to be an issue. And a bottle accident is far less likely that, say, an electrical fire.
I was lucky in that I got my bottle from a friend so there was no cost there. All I had to do was get a regulator, which cost about $80.00. It has a gauge showing bottle pressure and another showing pressure to the hose. It also has a valve for controlling the pressure.
As for my pressure fluctuation comment above, I noticed recently that during an especially long spray job, there was a drop in pressure of 1 psi. I adjusted accordingly and kept going.
Any more questions... let me know.
Pros:
Totally clean
No noise except for the hiss of gas coming out of the airbrush
Minimal fluctuation in pressure (I will explain below)
No need for moisture traps
Perfectly safe for indoor use
Cons:
Bottle has to be exchanged when it is empty
I switched over from a compressor a couple of years ago and have been nothing but happy with my decision. Some people have argued that it is kind of a hassle to take it in for exchange when it is out, but I can paint quite a few models before I have to take it back, and the place I use I pass by for other things, so not that big of a deal.
Some have also questioned the safety of a compressed gas bottle in the house. There are many people who use them for homemade beer or something and that doesn't seem to be an issue. And a bottle accident is far less likely that, say, an electrical fire.
I was lucky in that I got my bottle from a friend so there was no cost there. All I had to do was get a regulator, which cost about $80.00. It has a gauge showing bottle pressure and another showing pressure to the hose. It also has a valve for controlling the pressure.
As for my pressure fluctuation comment above, I noticed recently that during an especially long spray job, there was a drop in pressure of 1 psi. I adjusted accordingly and kept going.
Any more questions... let me know.
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 04:13 AM UTC
I had to reply to this and it might be due to the current hypocrisy but won't the global warning folks have a cow over this ?? Spewing all that CO2 into the atmosphere. I mean they get upset when cow's fart (I know methane). Anyways, a long time ago I too used CO2 tanks but found running to get them refilled became a burden (I currently have this issue with my propane tank and the BBQ grill). I switched back to a compressor with a tank and it just kicks in when the tank gets low. Now I don't have much of the issue with it spitting out water since I live in the US desert southwest (I still have a moisture trap). I was just wondering if current events would have made getting/refilling tanks become such a hassle.
Anyways this was more a humorous reply and hope I don't flamed for it. Bottom line I don't have a problem with it.
Cheers
Anyways this was more a humorous reply and hope I don't flamed for it. Bottom line I don't have a problem with it.
Cheers
PRH001
Joined: June 16, 2014
KitMaker: 681 posts
Armorama: 603 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 04:44 AM UTC
Hmmm,
I would definately make sure there was a good flow of air into and out of the area in which I was doing any prolonged spraying of CO2. It does displace oxygen and can cause ill effects if you have substantial/prolonged exposure. Probably not an issue for those spraying at low pressures and for short times, but it is something to consider if you intend to be doing prolonged work in that environment. Additionally, any leaks at fittings need to be factored in when you are working in tight quarters, as leaks displace oxygen just as well as the CO2 going through the airbrush.
As I said, probably not an issue at the usage rate of most casual modelers but a point I thought appropriate to mention as compressors don't have the same concern either with the spraying or the leaks.
Cheers,
PH
I would definately make sure there was a good flow of air into and out of the area in which I was doing any prolonged spraying of CO2. It does displace oxygen and can cause ill effects if you have substantial/prolonged exposure. Probably not an issue for those spraying at low pressures and for short times, but it is something to consider if you intend to be doing prolonged work in that environment. Additionally, any leaks at fittings need to be factored in when you are working in tight quarters, as leaks displace oxygen just as well as the CO2 going through the airbrush.
As I said, probably not an issue at the usage rate of most casual modelers but a point I thought appropriate to mention as compressors don't have the same concern either with the spraying or the leaks.
Cheers,
PH
gastec
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,042 posts
Armorama: 871 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 05:14 AM UTC
CO2 will not displace enough 02 when spraying to cause an issue. CO would be an entirely different matter though.
Remember that C02 is stored as a liquid in the cylinder and when the contents are getting low, a pressure gauge is not going to be that accurate. The only way to accurately measure the contents is by weighing it.
Gary
Remember that C02 is stored as a liquid in the cylinder and when the contents are getting low, a pressure gauge is not going to be that accurate. The only way to accurately measure the contents is by weighing it.
Gary
Charleygnarlyp290
Joined: May 07, 2013
KitMaker: 105 posts
Armorama: 85 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 05:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I had to reply to this and it might be due to the current hypocrisy but won't the global warning folks have a cow over this ?? Spewing all that CO2 into the atmosphere. I mean they get upset when cow's fart (I know methane). Anyways, a long time ago I too used CO2 tanks but found running to get them refilled became a burden (I currently have this issue with my propane tank and the BBQ grill). I switched back to a compressor with a tank and it just kicks in when the tank gets low. Now I don't have much of the issue with it spitting out water since I live in the US desert southwest (I still have a moisture trap). I was just wondering if current events would have made getting/refilling tanks become such a hassle.
Anyways this was more a humorous reply and hope I don't flamed for it. Bottom line I don't have a problem with it.
Cheers
Hey, every viewpoint counts! I had never even thought about that, actually. I think the amount of CO2 used would be negligible at best, though. Of course if the majority of modelers "saw the light" we might be in for some trouble!
MLD
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 3,569 posts
Armorama: 2,070 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yessir! I am using a C02 bottle and I will most likely never go back to a compressor again.
Pros:
Totally clean
No noise except for the hiss of gas coming out of the airbrush
Minimal fluctuation in pressure (I will explain below)
No need for moisture traps
Perfectly safe for indoor use
Cons:
Bottle has to be exchanged when it is empty
I switched over from a compressor a couple of years ago and have been nothing but happy with my decision. Some people have argued that it is kind of a hassle to take it in for exchange when it is out, but I can paint quite a few models before I have to take it back, and the place I use I pass by for other things, so not that big of a deal.
Some have also questioned the safety of a compressed gas bottle in the house. There are many people who use them for homemade beer or something and that doesn't seem to be an issue. And a bottle accident is far less likely that, say, an electrical fire.
I was lucky in that I got my bottle from a friend so there was no cost there. All I had to do was get a regulator, which cost about $80.00. It has a gauge showing bottle pressure and another showing pressure to the hose. It also has a valve for controlling the pressure.
As for my pressure fluctuation comment above, I noticed recently that during an especially long spray job, there was a drop in pressure of 1 psi. I adjusted accordingly and kept going.
Any more questions... let me know.
What Brett said...
I can echo everything he said to be true.
Dual gauge regulator is better than a single.
Silent
Dry
effectively constant pressure
I've been using mine for 10 plus years and it is perfect for me.
Charleygnarlyp290
Joined: May 07, 2013
KitMaker: 105 posts
Armorama: 85 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 05:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hmmm,
I would definately make sure there was a good flow of air into and out of the area in which I was doing any prolonged spraying of CO2. It does displace oxygen and can cause ill effects if you have substantial/prolonged exposure. Probably not an issue for those spraying at low pressures and for short times, but it is something to consider if you intend to be doing prolonged work in that environment. Additionally, any leaks at fittings need to be factored in when you are working in tight quarters, as leaks displace oxygen just as well as the CO2 going through the airbrush.
As I said, probably not an issue at the usage rate of most casual modelers but a point I thought appropriate to mention as compressors don't have the same concern either with the spraying or the leaks.
Cheers,
PH
Now, this I did think of. Kind of ironic in that I changed to a CO2 rig because I am doing this in the house. The area I use is well ventilated and I have a portable A/C unit that is vented outside that helps. And it always runs in the summer when I am in my work area. When the weather is nice I have a row of five huge windows that I open when the weather is nice.
As far as leaks go, one of the reasons I have to trade the bottle in as opposed to having it refilled, due to liability the bottles have to be re-tested before they can go out again. So, the bottles are as safe as they can be.
If I were working in an isolated area from the rest of the house/family I would possibly consider a quality compressor, but I don't foresee this happening in the near future.
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 07:45 AM UTC
I use a 20 lbs CO2 tank with a dual gauge regulator. It is about the size of a scuba tank. Many soda fountain machines use the same size CO2 tanks.
I need to refill about every 20 to 25 kits. as far as needing ventilation, You should vent the area you are painting in. This is not a CO2 thing, it is a paint fume thing. If you are venting for paint fumes, CO2 will not be an issue. You really don't use much CO2 when painting.
CO2 is about 800 PSI in the tank so it is very consistent when using a regulator. There is not any issues with pressure fluctuation. My regulator easily regulates down to a couple of pounds if I want.
CO2 is a "dry" gas so there is no moisture in the gas. Therefore there will be no condensation in the lines.
Other than the regulator, there is nothing to wear out.
The Tank is completely portable. You can paint anywhere because you need no power. Want to go to a club meeting or a buddies to paint, not a problem. Just put the tank in the trunk and go.
The tank is completely silent. The only noise is caused by the air escaping the airbrush.
With a compressor you will have a tank anyway. With CO2 I just don't have to have all the other junk that goes with it.
Safety. There is a valve you close on the tank when not in use and a valve on the regulator. I can't imagine a case where both valves failed and leaked at the rate that would be a safety concern. The only possible way is if something struck the neck of the bottle with enough force to break the neck off. My bottle has a built in handle that would make it almost impossible to strike the neck of the bottle.
Now if you feel the need to be tied to a power source or like to blog about moisture problems or oil that got into the tank from the compressor and caused a fish eye problem, or pressure pulsations or like replacing the rubber diaphragm or repairing or replacing the compressor every 10 years or so if used regularly or use someone else's compressor if you go to their place or that comforting rythmic noise as the compressor builds up pressure then a compressor is probably a better tool for you. Oh don't forget to drain the water that can accumulate in the tank because of moisture in the air.
I need to refill about every 20 to 25 kits. as far as needing ventilation, You should vent the area you are painting in. This is not a CO2 thing, it is a paint fume thing. If you are venting for paint fumes, CO2 will not be an issue. You really don't use much CO2 when painting.
CO2 is about 800 PSI in the tank so it is very consistent when using a regulator. There is not any issues with pressure fluctuation. My regulator easily regulates down to a couple of pounds if I want.
CO2 is a "dry" gas so there is no moisture in the gas. Therefore there will be no condensation in the lines.
Other than the regulator, there is nothing to wear out.
The Tank is completely portable. You can paint anywhere because you need no power. Want to go to a club meeting or a buddies to paint, not a problem. Just put the tank in the trunk and go.
The tank is completely silent. The only noise is caused by the air escaping the airbrush.
With a compressor you will have a tank anyway. With CO2 I just don't have to have all the other junk that goes with it.
Safety. There is a valve you close on the tank when not in use and a valve on the regulator. I can't imagine a case where both valves failed and leaked at the rate that would be a safety concern. The only possible way is if something struck the neck of the bottle with enough force to break the neck off. My bottle has a built in handle that would make it almost impossible to strike the neck of the bottle.
Now if you feel the need to be tied to a power source or like to blog about moisture problems or oil that got into the tank from the compressor and caused a fish eye problem, or pressure pulsations or like replacing the rubber diaphragm or repairing or replacing the compressor every 10 years or so if used regularly or use someone else's compressor if you go to their place or that comforting rythmic noise as the compressor builds up pressure then a compressor is probably a better tool for you. Oh don't forget to drain the water that can accumulate in the tank because of moisture in the air.
DocEvan
Joined: August 09, 2014
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 09:35 AM UTC
It's a teaching moment. Where do you think the CO2 in the tank comes from? From atmospheric CO2!
I've had my 20 lb tank for over 20 years. it cost $100 when new and I exchange it for $20 at a local welding supply company. They also have 10 lb tanks as well.
The regulator I got for free from my old lab!
Always make sure that you completely close the CO2 tank valve when done spraying. I've forgotten to do this at least 3x over the years, and it empties the tank due to a slow leak!
I've had my 20 lb tank for over 20 years. it cost $100 when new and I exchange it for $20 at a local welding supply company. They also have 10 lb tanks as well.
The regulator I got for free from my old lab!
Always make sure that you completely close the CO2 tank valve when done spraying. I've forgotten to do this at least 3x over the years, and it empties the tank due to a slow leak!
Quoted Text
I had to reply to this and it might be due to the current hypocrisy but won't the global warning folks have a cow over this ?? Spewing all that CO2 into the atmosphere. I mean they get upset when cow's fart (I know methane). Anyways, a long time ago I too used CO2 tanks but found running to get them refilled became a burden (I currently have this issue with my propane tank and the BBQ grill). I switched back to a compressor with a tank and it just kicks in when the tank gets low. Now I don't have much of the issue with it spitting out water since I live in the US desert southwest (I still have a moisture trap). I was just wondering if current events would have made getting/refilling tanks become such a hassle.
Anyways this was more a humorous reply and hope I don't flamed for it. Bottom line I don't have a problem with it.
Cheers
69mudbone
Joined: April 26, 2016
KitMaker: 362 posts
Armorama: 285 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 08:51 PM UTC
Hey Guys, Thanks for the quick turn around on info. I am golng to give the CO2 a go. Most decent compressors run close to 200.00 and I am really going to enjoy the peace and quite I am getting the Badger Patriot I had a dual action years back but gave it up " A pain in you know what " to clean but thiis Badger model appears to be rather easy to break down and clean. Onward and upwards. Again thanks
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Friday, June 03, 2016 - 05:12 AM UTC
Ah... another has been converted to the dark side! 
ScottLind
Joined: March 12, 2013
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Friday, June 03, 2016 - 06:47 AM UTC
I second all the positive comments made. My compressor has been relegated to the shed for inflating the kiddie pool and beach balls lol !
Jennings
Joined: April 30, 2016
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 69 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 02:12 AM UTC
Pros:
No noise
No moving parts (other than the knob on the regulator)
NO MOISTURE - EVER!!
No vibration
No oil
Nothing to replace other than swapping the tank out with a CO2 refill
Cheaper in the long run, cheaper up front (vs. a really high end compressor)
Cons:
None. Not a single one.
I'd NEVER go back to a compressor.
No noise
No moving parts (other than the knob on the regulator)
NO MOISTURE - EVER!!
No vibration
No oil
Nothing to replace other than swapping the tank out with a CO2 refill
Cheaper in the long run, cheaper up front (vs. a really high end compressor)
Cons:
None. Not a single one.
I'd NEVER go back to a compressor.
69mudbone
Joined: April 26, 2016
KitMaker: 362 posts
Armorama: 285 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 05, 2016 - 09:36 AM UTC
Hey Guys, any suggestions on a regulator
Charleygnarlyp290
Joined: May 07, 2013
KitMaker: 105 posts
Armorama: 85 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 05, 2016 - 08:58 PM UTC
Go to a welding or gas supply and get a regulator that looks something like this. And you need to specify it is for CO2. They can be had online for $50/$60.
69mudbone
Joined: April 26, 2016
KitMaker: 362 posts
Armorama: 285 posts
Posted: Monday, June 06, 2016 - 06:46 AM UTC
Hey Brett, thanks for the picture. I will go on my weekly supply run into town tomorrow and visit the local weld shop and get fixed up.
MLD
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 3,569 posts
Armorama: 2,070 posts
Posted: Monday, June 06, 2016 - 07:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Brett, thanks for the picture. I will go on my weekly supply run into town tomorrow and visit the local weld shop and get fixed up.
Ken, Bring your airbrush hose along too.
You'll need an adapter to connect the hose to the regulator.
Cost a couple of bucks 10+yrs ago.
Mike
Jennings
Joined: April 30, 2016
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 69 posts
Posted: Monday, June 06, 2016 - 07:42 PM UTC
And don't let anyone tell you you need a two stage regulator for CO2. That is patently untrue. I had a guy insist that was the case, and he was happy to sell me a two stage regulator for like $250. The $50 regulator from Harbor Freight works just fine.
srmalloy
Joined: April 15, 2012
KitMaker: 336 posts
Armorama: 298 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 - 07:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I had to reply to this and it might be due to the current hypocrisy but won't the global warning folks have a cow over this ?? Spewing all that CO2 into the atmosphere.
Where do you think they get the CO2? It's separated from the atmosphere, so they're just taking it out and compressing it, and you're putting it back.
Another option is to get tanks of compressed nitrogen; because nitrogen has a much lower freezing point, you don't have the issue of accidentally making dry ice. It's just as anhydrous, so you still don't have a water issue, and because nitrogen makes up a larger fraction of the atmosphere, the amount you're spraying will have a smaller impact if you don't have good ventilation.
Jennings
Joined: April 30, 2016
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 69 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 - 03:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I had to reply to this and it might be due to the current hypocrisy but won't the global warning folks have a cow over this ?? Spewing all that CO2 into the atmosphere.
You need to read up on "current carbon cycle". The CO2 in the cylinder you're using to airbrush with was exhaled by you and me just now, and isn't the result of burning the remains of trees that lived 300,000,000 years ago.
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 - 04:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI had to reply to this and it might be due to the current hypocrisy but won't the global warning folks have a cow over this ?? Spewing all that CO2 into the atmosphere.
You need to read up on "current carbon cycle". The CO2 in the cylinder you're using to airbrush with was exhaled by you and me just now, and isn't the result of burning the remains of trees that lived 300,000,000 years ago.
Oh geez, for the benefit of the post and the modeling related topic I first apologize for my first comment but I got the expected response.
From the replies, I am tempted to try this. So far it sounds positive. Now due to where I live I do not have a moisture problem like I did when I lived long long time ago in Michigan. But other then the lack of water randomly spitting out of your AB is there any other reasons/bennies to use compressed CO2? like maybe better flow?, less tip clogging? etc.
Cheers
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 - 06:19 AM UTC
With 800 lbs of pressure available you won't have any pulsation issues nor will you use more air than the compressor can keep up with. Completely silent. Just pick up the tank and carry it anywhere. No power requirements. No oil from the compressor to contaminate the paint. Etc... If you are asking will a CO2 cylinder provide a better quality paint job the answer is no. It will provide the same quality paint job as a good quality compressor will provide.
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