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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Concept Super Jumbo M4A3E2 (w) 90 HVSS
edouble
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 21, 2006
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 12:27 AM UTC
A few years back I was reading a Sherman reference book and in the section regarding end of war plans, there lived a one sentence suggestion that surviving Jumbos would be re-equipped with HVSS and re-armed with the 90mm M3A1 from the Jackson/Pershing. Hoo-rah!
Aberdeen did see a prototype HVSS Jumbo with a new combo 105mm/flame thrower turret but VJ day ended the development. However (in my mind) I could not let this thought go and I have been thinking about this for a few years.

I happened to have a weekend to myself recently and I broke out all the parts necessary, Old Tamiya Jumbo Kit, Tank Workshop Turret upgrade, RB 90mm barrel, AFV Club HVSS suspension, and some leftover T-66 Track from another easy eight project.

IMG_1932
IMG_1933
IMG_1935
IMG_1936
IMG_1937
IMG_1938
IMG_1940

I started this project without realizing how time consuming the HVSS kit would be. Of course I received my new Tamiya Easy 8 in the mail while all this was going on and a 4 piece bogie sounds real good right now.....
edouble
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 12:42 AM UTC
Coming together.... each time I finished a truck I worked on something else to stay sane!
IMG_1941
IMG_1939
As it will be a late M4A3 I added the late exhaust deflector. Gotta use up those boxes of dragon parts that get left over!
Belt_Fed
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 01:35 AM UTC
Man, it would have been REALLY cramped insise that turret!
m4sherman
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 02:05 AM UTC
The turret would be less cramped than the IDF M51's. You might think about adding some armor scrap to the turret rear to counter weight the new gun.

When I made the masters for the 'E2 for Tank Workshop the fad at the time was for a heavy cast texture. I found out later it was not that rough. It could use some smoothing.

Neat idea, and it will look great with that long gun tube.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 05:21 AM UTC
The armored exhaust deflector was really two pieces:



If you can/want to make the correction.

Note the two lugs on the rear plate are part of the deflector set-up. They hold them up for engine servicing.

KL
accelr8
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 10:03 AM UTC
I had the same thought a few years ago- "what if there were a reich-46 situation, or the Soviets turned on us in '45, what expedient designs would arise?" A Jumbo with HVSS would improve ground pressure and offer a better ride possibly. And what if the concentric recoil mechanism was perfected earlier? Would that allow carriage of the M3? Theroretically it should have fit, given that it was already on the M36 and that the Pershing had the same turret ring diameter.
Behold:




This is a combination of the Tasca Jumbo and M4A3E8 early kits. It was very easy to kitbash given the common breakdown of the tasca kits. The gun came from a Dragon Pershing. Yes, the shipment stencils and serial number are gibberish. I just needed it to look right. Casting numbers are a continuation of the original run of Jumbo turret casting numbers.
165thspc
#521
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 04:06 PM UTC
Very nice. Impressive build!
GazzaS
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 04:14 PM UTC
Nice build. So many Shermans don't look tough. Yours does. I really like it.

Gaz
edouble
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Arizona, United States
Joined: January 21, 2006
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 07:22 PM UTC
Thanks Randall for the TWS Jumbo update in the first place, I have built 3 of them over the years, the last one was used with the real Jumbo when it was in AZ a few years back when we went to events to show the features off.

Kurt, I forgot about the deflector and now my fanciful weekend build will morph into another case of ACCUTE MODELER SYNDROME.

As a matter of fact I Just bought an Asuka Jumbo and Tamiya Easy 8 with the idea of a morph.... but I have boxes of Sherman spares that need somewhere to go. This one is a palette cleanser and may reduce "overhead".
qcarr1
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 09:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I had the same thought a few years ago- "what if there were a reich-46 situation, or the Soviets turned on us in '45, what expedient designs would arise?" A Jumbo with HVSS would improve ground pressure and offer a better ride possibly. And what if the concentric recoil mechanism was perfected earlier? Would that allow carriage of the M3? Theroretically it should have fit, given that it was already on the M36 and that the Pershing had the same turret ring diameter.
Behold:




This is a combination of the Tasca Jumbo and M4A3E8 early kits. It was very easy to kitbash given the common breakdown of the tasca kits. The gun came from a Dragon Pershing. Yes, the shipment stencils and serial number are gibberish. I just needed it to look right. Casting numbers are a continuation of the original run of Jumbo turret casting numbers.



Brian - that build is awesome! Do you have more photos of it available? Thanks for sharing.
accelr8
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 09:13 PM UTC
No, i'm hijacking someone else's thread as it is, which is rude and i shouldn't have done so. If i dust off my SLR i might take some better pics in the future. Just wanted to show that someone else had the same crazy idea
qcarr1
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 09:52 PM UTC
Roger that!
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Monday, June 27, 2016 - 10:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The armored exhaust deflector was really two pieces:



If you can/want to make the correction.

Note the two lugs on the rear plate are part of the deflector set-up. They hold them up for engine servicing.

KL



Since he's already adding a more powerful gun and HVSS, it would be a stretch to assume the US army would fit a single part deflecter to this vehicle.
Removed by original poster on 05/13/19 - 22:39:44 (GMT).
edouble
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Posted: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 12:02 AM UTC
Just for fun...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP0WEEWN1aE
edouble
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Posted: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 12:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

No, i'm hijacking someone else's thread as it is, which is rude and i shouldn't have done so. If i dust off my SLR i might take some better pics in the future. Just wanted to show that someone else had the same crazy idea




Have no fear, this is all for discussion. I plan on doing a stowage covered battle vet with an "out there" paint scheme. Normally I am a severe rivet counter but why let all those panzer maniacs have all the '46 fun!
qcarr1
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Posted: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 12:29 AM UTC
Nice video that I had never seen before. What a beauty!
m4sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 02:25 AM UTC
[quote]Thanks Randall for the TWS Jumbo update in the first place, I have built 3 of them over the years, the last one was used with the real Jumbo when it was in AZ a few years back when we went to events to show the features off.
quote]

Ethan,

I am pleased to hear that. You built more of them than I have! I'm in Phoenix, but due to work, health, and driving for my Parents, I haven't been to any shows in years. I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

I had a similar idea in mind years ago, but that was before a what if was an acceptable form of WWII'ish modeling.
edouble
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Posted: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 10:50 AM UTC
Randall, we actually met years ago at Hobby Depot. I think I was the one who bought the remaining TWS from Don before he sold the shop it to Dick Christ. If you are at all interested, we are getting the AMPS-AZ crowd back to gather if you have some time here or there….?
m4sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 05:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Randall, we actually met years ago at Hobby Depot. I think I was the one who bought the remaining TWS from Don before he sold the shop it to Dick Christ. If you are at all interested, we are getting the AMPS-AZ crowd back to gather if you have some time here or there….?



I am interested. I work that crappy 12 hour rotation health killer shift, Thursday to Saturday 7am to 7pm and every other Wednesday.
edouble
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Joined: January 21, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, July 07, 2016 - 01:34 AM UTC
Finally found some time after the 4th to do a bit of modeling and today I am adding an up gunned coax that was a field mod in the spring of 1945. Some Jumbos hard an air cooled .50 cal M2 in the mantlet so I liberated a spare from the Academy MG set I had lying around.
IMG_2083
As I liberated more parts from the parts box I found Dragon/Academy/Tamiya/and Italeri parts I need. Of course, one minute after I took the pic I dropped the turret on the floor....
IMG_2084
m4sherman
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Posted: Thursday, July 07, 2016 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Finally found some time after the 4th to do a bit of modeling and today I am adding an up gunned coax that was a field mod in the spring of 1945. Some Jumbos hard an air cooled .50 cal M2 in the mantlet so I liberated a spare from the Academy MG set I had lying around.
IMG_2083
As I liberated more parts from the parts box I found Dragon/Academy/Tamiya/and Italeri parts I need. Of course, one minute after I took the pic I dropped the turret on the floor....
IMG_2084



Nothing to worry about. The only thing that's bound to get broken is the one that you only have one of, and it was on the model! I hope that isn't the case.
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Thursday, July 07, 2016 - 07:28 AM UTC
Cool additions, Ethan. Is the engine going to be upgraded?
highpoint
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Arizona, United States
Joined: October 14, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, July 07, 2016 - 10:59 PM UTC
Ahh Ethan,

I see those freckled red headed fingers. You gonna have this ready for November? It looks cool so far. Let me know if you get the AMPS back up and running.

Jeff
Can never have enuff shermans!
JoeBev
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Posted: Friday, July 08, 2016 - 12:49 AM UTC
Gentlemen- I saw you mentioned AMPS. I am the 2nd VP for the West Region of AMPS. It would be great to see an AMPS chapter in Arizona.
Just to let you know. The first AMPS Western regional Show will be coming next year will be put on by So Cal AMPS and IPMS "Insane Modeling Chapter in Orange County . The show will be called "The First Insane Modeling Contest" The date will be June 24th, 2017 in Mission Viejo California. All the armor entries will be judged under AMPS rules and the other categories will be judged IPMS style. So please send me contact information that I can have posted on the AMPS site and also so we can keep you updated on the upcoming show. It would be great to have you come and participate in the show.
Thank you
Joe Bevans
AMPS 2nd VP Wesat Region
AMPS So Cal
my email is [email protected]

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