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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Demolished Tiger I Hull
JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 04:13 PM UTC
Hi Group,

You've probably see this but it is new to me; from Life Mag. of the El Guettar battle.

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/view-of-the-wreckage-of-destroyed-german-armor-left-behind-news-photo/56256274#view-of-the-wreckage-of-destroyed-german-armor-left-behind-during-the-picture-id56256274
Byrden
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 07:27 PM UTC
Time/Life Getty Images seems to have passed from the hands of historians into the hands of accountants.

They are reportedly very fast to ask for royalties if you use their images. But I have tried repeatedly to correct the captions on these photos, and have been ignored.

There were no Tigers at El Guettar.
These wrecks were destroyed in fighting with the British, not the Americans.
Does it look like "desert" to you?

My captions are here;

http://tiger1.info/event-page/3-Tigers-wrecked-Hunts-Gap
http://tiger1.info/event-page/4-Tigers-Panzer-graveyard-Hunts-Gap

David
Hederstierna
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 07:44 PM UTC
From what I've heard, Tunisia should be quite green in some areas, and not the same dessert loke landscape as in Libya. This fact was also mentioned in one of the "myths" of the ligth green Tigers, as a reason why they should have been painted so.
Jacob
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 08:59 PM UTC
Thanks Fred & David. There's a super diorama to be made here, especially with the Academy Tigers with their "interiors" that are sometimes inaccurate, but would not show much, other than perhaps blown engine hatches and the interior of the inverted turret.

It would be nice to have a close-up of that turret to handle the detailing of what is going to show.
Byrden
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 09:32 PM UTC
Now, why would you use an Academy Tiger when you can get MUCH better interior from Rye Field?

But I would also use parts from a Dragon Tiger, i.e. the turret shell and the hull roof, because Rye Field messed up the joints between them.

David
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 09:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

From what I've heard, Tunisia should be quite green in some areas, and not the same dessert loke landscape as in Libya.


Also, the timeframe is described as "early 1943"; given how fast desert biomes rush to push up green growth, flower, and go to seed after the spring rains before going brown and dying back until the fall rains, a green 'desert' is only surprising to people who don't live there -- the Anza-Borrego Desert, Tucson, AZ, and Sedona, AZ are examples of the desert turning green -- all too briefly -- when the rains come.
Byrden
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 10:25 PM UTC
The location of the photographs was painstakingly identified as Hunt's Gap through the use of Google Earth and on-location photos from a tourist. Features such as hills, stream culverts and farms were matched.

David
Hederstierna
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 11:24 PM UTC
David: It was my understanding, that you questioned the location to be in North Africa, and not your knowledge on the actual battle and such.
Jacob
Hederstierna
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 11:26 PM UTC
Oh, by the way; would it be plauseble to build a Panther demolished in such a way? I guess this kind of damage would only come from a demolition charge or a heavy artillery round directly Down the hatch.
Jacob
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Posted: Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 11:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Now, why would you use an Academy Tiger when you can get MUCH better interior from Rye Field?

But I would also use parts from a Dragon Tiger, i.e. the turret shell and the hull roof, because Rye Field messed up the joints between them.

David


For one thing, I'd rather use a less detailed Academy Tiger (subjectively a crap kit in some people's opinion) model kit than to trash out a pretty decent one like the RFM Tiger for the purpose of building a completely destroyed vehicle. A pile of military garbage doesn't require that every visible bit be perfect.
Byrden
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Posted: Monday, August 08, 2016 - 12:17 AM UTC
Ah, I see. You're thinking about the wreck of Tiger 141;



but when Bill said "inverted turret", I was thinking about Tiger 823;



David
Byrden
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Posted: Monday, August 08, 2016 - 12:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I guess this kind of damage would only come from a demolition charge or a heavy artillery round directly Down the hatch.
Jacob


This was not the usual demolition charge. Both sides in this battle took great risks to destroy the Tigers with explosives that they brought.

David
JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Time/Life Getty Image...into the hands of accountants.

They are reportedly very fast to ask for royalties if you use their images.

Hi David,

What about using URLs as I did. Do they try to push their snouts into forums like this?
Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 - 02:08 PM UTC
I'm no lawyer, but as far as I understand, URLs are not supject to copyright protection per se. Trademark law would apply; if you pretended to own the site, or to be acting on the owner's behalf, you could be in trouble, but if you indicate that you're simply giving the location of something that you don't own then you're OK.

Any more informed opinions would be welcome.

David
Hederstierna
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 - 04:40 PM UTC
David:
Is this one of the attemptsto destroy these Tigers?

The idea of the heavy artillery shell was of this picture, of a Pz. IV from Normandy.

Jacob
Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 - 05:14 PM UTC
That is the destruction of Tiger 142, but it's weeks after the battle. At this stage the Tiger has already been knocked out and its turret has been blown off its hull by demolition charges, so I don't know why they wanted to destroy it a third time.

David
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 - 06:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text

...At this stage the Tiger has already been knocked out and its turret has been blown off its hull by demolition charges, so I don't know why they wanted to destroy it a third time...


Some people just like to 'blow up' things
Hederstierna
#247
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Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 - 06:33 PM UTC
Well, who wouldn't like to blow something up ???

David: The picture is probably just another propaganda stunt to sell more war bonds or such.

Jacob
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