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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
What if "Amble Archer" escalated in 1983...
GreyOrk
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Joined: December 22, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 01:02 AM UTC
...I'll be dealing with the T-64BV from Trumpeter...



Hello everybody,

what may have happend if the 1983 maneuvre of the NATO-forces escaleted to the nuclear war as the Treaty of Warshaw fear it to be.


On the 7th of November 1983 the NATO troops started a big maneuvre to simulate an atomic case of war... due to the fear of the Soviet leadership this might cover a decapiation strike against them they looked very concernd to the "play" - everymoment awaiting the moment it flashes into a hot war. The double agent Oleg Antonowitsch Gordijewski gave the information how the Soviet staff viewed on the NATO-actions and the NATO avoid to play the game too deep - so the American president Ronald Reagan doesn't enther the bunker system and showes himself instead to public. So the situation was till 11th of November... Than the NATO goverments got aware of the dangerousity of the hole situation and stopped. Reagen got some idea how close they were to a nuclear war and started talks to detente.

But what if the NATO-officiales were desinterested to the information coming from Gordijewski?

What if they didn't beliefe in what he said... what if his messages didn't reach them in time?
What if the West-German Bundeswehr abuses the situation to recunite Germany in the military way - to rock the NATO troops with them eastwards!?
What if the first wave is stoppped and the Group of the Soviet Army in Germany sends their brandnew patch of T-64 tanks to the frontline?
What if the TOWmissiles of the Brandley M3 were inable to penetrate the Kontakt-3 ERA?
What if NATO dogma of the "flexible resopnse" was abused by the Bundeswehr to use the nuclear sharing to stop a Soviet Guards Tank Battalion by fiering a Nike Hercules rocket?
What if the Soviet troops answer with an attack of the 9M21G - as this variant is fitted with a 390 kg (860-lb) warhead - the tactical role of the weapon was obviesly top avoid the MAD - and so the battlefield went into a nuclear desert?
What if there is no airwar because the eastern forces were wiped out - but the NATO is not allowed to start bombers airplanes or helicopters because the Soviet ICBMs will be massivly started if any airplane is viewed?

There will be a battle of tanks and mechanisized infantry... and this is my unpleasant scenario...a ground warfare in the nuclear desert of the German-German-border region. A theater of war to toxic and contaminated to left the IFVs or tanks -

The T-64 BV was quickly updated in the T-64 BV-Я (spoken: T-64 BV Dja) the cyrillic letter looking like a mirror-invnrted R is a Ja - a as the D in dungle and an a. It is the first letter of the russian word for nuclear warefare: Ядерная войнадерная война.

So I'll have to add several modifications to the T-64 BV-Я mostly due to the fall-out radiation:

nuclear-flash-sunglases to the optics
big dimensiones air-in-filters and flexible airtubes
further lead-packages on the hullsides and floor
enlarged ammo-box to the NSW 12.7mm gun
crane to handle them
front protection to the NSW mashinegun
lead coverd baggage also food & baverage boxes
widenes wheels to enhance the driving gears performance
radiation-safe shell casing eject hatch on the turret
NBC-secured hatch to the 7.62mm coaxial PTK machinegun
new wartime number & letter code on the backside of the turret
EMP-armour to vital parts
"redundand trackpices" and running wheels for a quickly highspeed repair
side damage after Syrian and Ukrainian prototypes
wire lying arround for the two Tows


As the tank is shown after the meeting with a nosly M2 scout - there will be a proper hit on the side Kontakt-3 (forerunner of the Kontakt-5) armour and a part of the side skirt is indrawn in the driving gear and the track has been broken and "unhorsed".

Here a scetch of the skirmish at the advanced guard of a decontamination point "Lance" - the defender is in ligh blue the attacker in red colour. The M2 was scoutint for a way to sneak beside the river Elbe into GDR-terretory, the T-64 had to avoid this. So the M2 serched for cover behind an embankment and fired a TOW missile in a bow and hit. The radioman reported enthusiastic the kill...
and the T-64 identified the target (top part of the turret and the TOW twin launcher) wrongly as a AT-rocket group with a TOW launcher on a 4WD-jeep

so the turret was moved and the autoloader put in a ATrocket - fired at 400 m/s fast the 9М112 «Кобра» (9K112 "Kobra" or AT-8 "Songster") left the muzzel and in the same moment the commander of the M2 saw his misjudgement due to the turning of the T-64's turret towards him and launched it's second TOW in the same moment as the T-64.

As the TOW had a maximum speed of 320m/s the Kobra hit first - changed the M2 into a ball of fire.

So my scenario for the diorama is the following: The T-64 moved foreward to look for enemy soldiers and technic - but lost his track by sideskirts and Kontakt-3 brackets in the gear and stuck beside his prey awaiting assistance to undo the mess in his drivng gear.

Here the first scetch of alterations:
the gun with the extra NBC-filter and the EMP-resistent aiming-feature on the barrel - and a CRL (contamination-reducing-lid) on the muzzle. This because in the moment there is the breech block openes - radiation may come in. As the fallout is kept out the overpreasure in the tank but radiation has to be kept ou by a layer of lead.



...and the heavier protected 12.7mm machinecanon on the turret - this gun is often used to save ammo for the maingun. The transport and bring in the hull is a possible source of contamination of the fighting room. So it is easier to exchange the 12.7mm ammobox outside of the tank - that is allways contaminated and can stay in this situation.
So the ammobox will be enlarged and several of them will be placed outside of the turret. The usual 300 shot will notr be enough - as we know from the Afghanistan theater.


...on the starboard side the alteration of the tank & storage boxes - the yellow is simple plasticsheet.





Here the turret backside with the damaged pipes for deepwater driving...


Next step a grey brown anthrazit brown "easy to contaminate" colour will be added - after this a typical russian layer of a white crossing stripes as a winter camouflage layer...



not as cubic as shown here but "more as a "netting-layer".

Keep calm - and build models!

GreyOrk
Armored76
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Joined: September 30, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 11:57 AM UTC
You should start writing stories ALONG WITH building models! Great background story for an interesting scratch building project with a promising start!

I'll be following this with interest.

Cheers
jasegreene
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 12:42 PM UTC
i remember hearing about how all this almost started world war 3.your what if also sounds some what like the 1983 movie "the day after".
ijozic
Joined: May 23, 2007
KitMaker: 109 posts
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 01:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The T-64 BV was quickly updated in the T-64 BV-Я (spoken: T-64 BV Dja) the cyrillic letter looking like a mirror-invnrted R is a Ja - a as the D in dungle and an a. It is the first letter of the russian word for nuclear warefare: Ядерная войнадерная война.



Sorry for nitpicking OT, but I wonder where does the D come from? Not a Russian speaker myself, but AFAIK the Я is read as 'ja' in Russian (in English it would be like e.g. yarn).
exgrunt
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 06:19 PM UTC
Cool subject. My guess is that the Russians would have burned right through NATO. I was a young grunt at the tail end of the cold war and the thought of facing all those T-64/72/80's with LAW's, the horrible Dragon ATGM and TOWs (which seemed to miss more often than not) was discouraging to say the least. Also keep in mind that in '83, there were very few Brads and M1's in West Germany. Most of the US forces still were equipped with M113's and M60's.



DutyFirst1917
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 07:25 PM UTC
Very interesting and can't wait for the updates! I did a paper on this during grad school and it's worth remembering that KAL007 was shot down barely two months before ABLE ARCHER! Indeed a time of extreme tension!

Tim
HermannB
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 10:01 PM UTC
Documantary about ABLE ARCHER on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ciy5R-tLiE
GreyOrk
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Joined: December 22, 2015
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Posted: Friday, September 16, 2016 - 11:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The T-64 BV was quickly updated in the T-64 BV-Я (spoken: T-64 BV Dja) the cyrillic letter looking like a mirror-invnrted R is a Ja - a as the D in dungle and an a. It is the first letter of the russian word for nuclear warefare: Ядерная войнадерная война.



Sorry for nitpicking OT, but I wonder where does the D come from? Not a Russian speaker myself, but AFAIK the Я is read as 'ja' in Russian (in English it would be like e.g. yarn).



That's much more exact as I coulkd have told to anybody - thanks for the help...
GreyOrk
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Joined: December 22, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2016 - 12:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You should start writing stories ALONG WITH building models! Great background story for an interesting scratch building project with a promising start!

I'll be following this with interest.

Cheers



I'll make very little progress in the next week... there is a plenty of privat activity this week (church, crises line, refugee contacts, and studying)

Hopefully next weekend I'm able to manage at keep open a slot in my scedule to make some test spraying... the next step in building is to get some destroyed ERA side brackets and rubber-schürze...
Here the pictures I deal with from Syrian prototype:





GreyOrk
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Berlin, Germany
Joined: December 22, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2016 - 10:20 PM UTC
Now photobucket works... here the picturer I useing as a stimulus:





Here the controllunit for the Kobra rocket



Brick and bracket armor




hopefully you've fun

69mudbone
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2016 - 12:59 AM UTC
I also remember that time, nice background story. I was in the Navy at the time and Reagan scared the the be gee bees out of the comrades
MassimoTessitori
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Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:13 AM UTC
For what I know, reactive armours have a layer of explosive that explodes when hit and expells the outer metal plate to break the jet of the shaped charge warhead.
The damage that you have reproduced on the kit doesn't resemble to an exploded ERA brick.
TimW42
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Joined: April 05, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 11:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The T-64 BV was quickly updated in the T-64 BV-Я (spoken: T-64 BV Dja) the cyrillic letter looking like a mirror-invnrted R is a Ja - a as the D in dungle and an a. It is the first letter of the russian word for nuclear warefare: Ядерная войнадерная война.



Sorry for nitpicking OT, but I wonder where does the D come from? Not a Russian speaker myself, but AFAIK the Я is read as 'ja' in Russian (in English it would be like e.g. yarn).




The letter is pronounced "ya." No other sounds.
That's much more exact as I coulkd have told to anybody - thanks for the help...

TimW42
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Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 11:12 PM UTC
You're making me want to do a "WW3" diorama.

Where do you get some modern buildings etc?

I guess you could mix-n-match.

You could have a BTR parked next to a smashed up Edeka, with the troops helping themselves to western goodies.

Tim W.
ivanhoe6
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Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 11:46 PM UTC
Christian, did you ever see the TV series, "Deutschland 83" ?
I think it was a German TV show. Fiction based on facts. Told the story from both the NATO & Warsaw Pact view points along with lots of civilian stories also. Lots of 80's music too.
We came very close to the end of all things as we know it if the show was to be believed.
Good luck on your build. I will check in from time to time and check on your progress.

Tom
GulfWarrior
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 11:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Christian, did you ever see the TV series, "Deutschland 83" ?
I think it was a German TV show. Fiction based on facts. Told the story from both the NATO & Warsaw Pact view points along with lots of civilian stories also. Lots of 80's music too.
We came very close to the end of all things as we know it if the show was to be believed.
Good luck on your build. I will check in from time to time and check on your progress.

Tom




You can watch it on Amazon prime video. It was pretty interesting. I think they could have done a little more with it leading up to the events coinciding with the Wall coming down and re-unification.

I was actually on the inter-German border on Reunification Day on an installation that was so close to the border that on a clear morning you could see the east german border guards walking their german shepherds along the fence-line.
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 11:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Christian, did you ever see the TV series, "Deutschland 83" ?
I think it was a German TV show. Fiction based on facts. Told the story from both the NATO & Warsaw Pact view points along with lots of civilian stories also. Lots of 80's music too.
We came very close to the end of all things as we know it if the show was to be believed.
Good luck on your build. I will check in from time to time and check on your progress.

Tom



I second that one--fun series. Really took me back (I was in Germany from 82-93).

Tim W.
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 11:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Christian, did you ever see the TV series, "Deutschland 83" ?
I think it was a German TV show. Fiction based on facts. Told the story from both the NATO & Warsaw Pact view points along with lots of civilian stories also. Lots of 80's music too.
We came very close to the end of all things as we know it if the show was to be believed.
Good luck on your build. I will check in from time to time and check on your progress.


They are working on a second season that will go up to the Wall coming down, or so I read a little while ago.
https://when-release.com/tv-series/Deutschland-83-Season-2-release-date

Tom




You can watch it on Amazon prime video. It was pretty interesting. I think they could have done a little more with it leading up to the events coinciding with the Wall coming down and re-unification.

I was actually on the inter-German border on Reunification Day on an installation that was so close to the border that on a clear morning you could see the east german border guards walking their german shepherds along the fence-line.

 _GOTOTOP