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AFV Painting & Weathering
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Question about lacquer paints and thinners?
Hisham
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 05:45 AM UTC
Would Tamiya lacquer thinner work with any paint that says lacquer on the label, or are there different types of lacquer paints? Kind of like water based acrylics and lacquer based acrylics.

Hisham
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 08:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Would Tamiya lacquer thinner work with any paint that says lacquer on the label, or are there different types of lacquer paints? Kind of like water based acrylics and lacquer based acrylics.

Hisham


Hisham, I've been able to use Tamiya lacquer thinner with Gunze Mr. Hobby lacquer paints, but I'd be careful about mixing it with other types of lacquer paints, especially any kind of automotive "acrylic lacquers"-- these are not what the name "acrylic" implies to us modelers.
VR Russ
Hisham
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 01:12 PM UTC
Hey, Russ... I use Tamiya's lacquer thinner with both Tamiya and Mr Hobby paints.. I was wondering about using it with other lacquer modelling paints like Gaiavolor, or this IPP brand .. or maybe Alclad paints?

Thanks
Hisham
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 02:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey, Russ... I use Tamiya's lacquer thinner with both Tamiya and Mr Hobby paints.. I was wondering about using it with other lacquer modelling paints like Gaiavolor, or this IPP brand .. or maybe Alclad paints?

Thanks
Hisham


Hi, Hisham!

Stay AWAY from "Automotive-type" lacquers, that you would normally find in department stores and auto-supply houses- They are way too "hot" for use in thinning ANY paints that are intended to be used for models. However, these "Automotive-types" of lacquers are great to clean brushes with, as they are hot enough to even remove dried paint- I DO NOT recommend immersing any airbrush parts containing rubber grommets, o-rings, or gaskets in these thinners, as they will eventually break up, or even melt if they come into contact with these thinners.

Your SAFEST bets are to use thinners that are made by the same manufacturers as your paints are. I personally favor petroleum-based Enamels, mainly the TESTORS Model Master II Enamels, so I stick with TESTORS Enamel & Airbrush Thinners, and TESTORS Lacquer Thinners for when I'm shooting my TESTORS, ALCLAD or SNJ "Metalizer" Lacquers through my "designated airbrush" that I use ONLY for that purpose- I use my 3 other airbrushes strictly for Enamels...
Hisham
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 02:24 PM UTC
Hey, Dennis.. thanks for the tip about the automotive lacquers.. I don't plan to use those... Problem is that I see modelling lacquer paints like Gaiacolor or that other IPP brand.. but when I check the whole line, I don't see any thinner. I would like to try some of these paints, but I don't know what thinner to use with them.

Hisham
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 04:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey, Dennis.. thanks for the tip about the automotive lacquers.. I don't plan to use those... Problem is that I see modelling lacquer paints like Gaiacolor or that other IPP brand.. but when I check the whole line, I don't see any thinner. I would like to try some of these paints, but I don't know what thinner to use with them.

Hisham


Hi!

I just mentioned all that about the automotive-use lacquers because you mentioned the ALCLAD Lacquers, which are generally used with model aircraft, or model cars.

I'm not at all sure about the TAMIYA Lacquer Thinners, mainly because I don't generally use any of the TAMIYA Acrylic Paints or their Thinners. I DO use the TAMIYA Lacquers in the spray cans, but those paints are of a different chemical composition altogether, and I find that TESTORS Lacquer Thinner works well for cleanup when I use these TAMIYA spray paints, and for when I use TESTORS Lacquer Spray Paints as well. I NEVER use lacquer thinners of any kind to thin my enamels- That's just asking for trouble...

I'm not familiar with either the GAIA COLOR or IPP brands of lacquers, so that's why I refrained from mentioning anything about them. What type of lacquers are they, and what are they used for? Are they model paints, or are they something that one would use in another type of hobby, such as crafting or model railroading..? I'm going to check some of my sources, just to see if I can come up with anything for you...

Hi, I'm back- According to various things that I've just read on-line, you can use MR.COLOR Thinner- This is a good generic lacquer thinner that you can use with your GAIA COLOR paints. You can also get GAIA Lacquer Thinner, #s T-01h 1000mil, T-01m 500mil and T-01s 250mil from AMAZON. If AMAZON stocks this stuff, then I'm sure that there are on-line and "brick-and-mortar" hobby shops that also stock it. Since MR.COLOR and GAIA are Japanese-made products, you'd probably be best off to check with Japanese or Asian hobby houses...

Conversely, the IPP Lacquers are made in Korea, and I found out that MR.COLOR Thinner works well with them, too. The article I read also made an interesting side note, in that regular Acrylic Lacquer Thinner that you would buy in a hardware store or in the paint & hardware section of a department store works just as well with either of the paints that you were asking about; it's much cheaper, too!

Just as I mentioned before, you want to make sure that the lacquer thinner that you wind up buying at the hardware or department stores IS NOT an "Automotive Re-finishing Lacquer Thinner"...
Hisham
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 10:17 PM UTC
Thanks a lot for taking the time to research the subject, Dennis

My problem here is being limited to buying from a couple of stores who take straight cc transactions AND ship paints and thinners to Egypt. After years of not having PayPal in Egypt, they finally made it possible to link the cc to a PayPal account.. and I actually used it a few times, until a couple of months ago when my payments weren't accepted anymore.. I contacted PayPal and the sellers and the bank here, but they all say everything regarding my account is normal... yet any payment I try to make gets refused!! The only solution I'm thinking of now is to cancel the cc and

Anyway, sorry for the long story.. just trying to explain that I have very limited sources to buy from.. if the stores I deal with don't have it.. I forget about it and start looking for something else

I'll look around and see what I can find.

Thanks again.
Hisham
VintageRPM
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2016 - 02:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Stay AWAY from "Automotive-type" lacquers, that you would normally find in department stores and auto-supply houses- They are way too "hot" for use in thinning ANY paints that are intended to be used for models.


This may be correct for armor modelering acrylics, but not for all paints. Car modelers shoot automotive lacquers all the time. In those cases, the better the quality lacquer thinner used the better off you'll be. I even have a friend who thins his enamels for spraying on armor with lacquer thinner.


Quoted Text

Your SAFEST bets are to use thinners that are made by the same manufacturers as your paints are.


I couldn't agree more with this statement. You can't go wrong this way.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2016 - 03:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Stay AWAY from "Automotive-type" lacquers, that you would normally find in department stores and auto-supply houses- They are way too "hot" for use in thinning ANY paints that are intended to be used for models.


This may be correct for armor modelering acrylics, but not for all paints. Car modelers shoot automotive lacquers all the time. In those cases, the better the quality lacquer thinner used the better off you'll be. I even have a friend who thins his enamels for spraying on armor with lacquer thinner.


Quoted Text

Your SAFEST bets are to use thinners that are made by the same manufacturers as your paints are.


I couldn't agree more with this statement. You can't go wrong this way.



When I was speaking about automotive acrylic lacquers, I was talking about industrial acrylic lacquers made primarily by companies like PPG for the 1:1 scale auto industry-- these are not "lacquers" we plastic modelers would view as acrylic lacquers. They are also not formulated the same way as the lacquers you buy in a spray can or paint tin in the auto parts store. PPG type automotive paints are thinned with an acrylic lacquer "reducer" which is highly toxic, that's why real autos are painted in a spay booth with an MSA approved mask, or by robotics. Regular store lacquer thinner will not clean or thin these paints, there really is no such thing as a hardware store "acrylic" laquer thinner-- it's just plain lacquer thinner. I routinely thin Model Master and Humbrol paints with lacquer thinner I by by the gallon at Lowes or Home Depot, and I use this laquer thinner for cleaning my airbrushes exclusively. BUT, I only use Tamiya or Mr. Color thinners/levelers with Tamiya or Mr. Color paints-- as someone mentioned above, sometimes it's better to stick with the manufactures thinners. Other store bought lacquer thinners will thin and spray Tamiya and Gunze paints, but don't try and use them more than once when mixed. In the case of Tamiya and Gunze lacquers I've found they are largely interchangeable.
VR Russ
Hisham
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2016 - 04:37 PM UTC
Thanks for all the input, guys.

Of course I agree with sticking with the same brand thinner.. I use both Tamiya lacquer thinner and Mr Color leveling thinner with Tamiya and Mr Color paints.. but like I said, I don't always find the same brand thinner.. like these IPP paints I saw at Hobbyeasy.. they don't carry their thinner, so I have to look for something else.

By the way, is the Mr Color leveling thinner a lacquer thinner (like Tamiya's with the yellow cap) or is it a regular acrylic thinner (like Tamiya's with the white cap)? Because I used it to thin their Mr Surfacer 1500 Black, but I didn't get as good a result as I usually get when I thin it with Tamiya's lacquer thinner... and strangely enough, I get great results when I thin Ammo MIG and AK paints with this leveling thinner.. but not Vallejo paints!

I guess it's a continuous process of experimentation

Hisham
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2016 - 04:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Stay AWAY from "Automotive-type" lacquers, that you would normally find in department stores and auto-supply houses- They are way too "hot" for use in thinning ANY paints that are intended to be used for models.


This may be correct for armor modelering acrylics, but not for all paints. Car modelers shoot automotive lacquers all the time. In those cases, the better the quality lacquer thinner used the better off you'll be. I even have a friend who thins his enamels for spraying on armor with lacquer thinner.


Quoted Text

Your SAFEST bets are to use thinners that are made by the same manufacturers as your paints are.


I couldn't agree more with this statement. You can't go wrong this way.


Just a side note regarding Car Modellers, (Yes, I'm one of THOSE, too! ), and their use of 1:1 scale Automotive Lacquer Paints & Thinners, i.e, the PPG Base-coat/Clear-coat system- Auto modellers will PRIME their car models, engage in wet-sanding the relevant parts, i.e the Bodies, Hoods, etc, re-prime and wet-sand again, BEFORE they lay on ANY Lacquer-based Paints and Clear-coats- an ultra-smooth High Gloss finish is IMPERATIVE with dedicated Car modelers, for obvious reasons.

My point is that ANY plastic model should be primed before any lacquer OR enamel is applied, even when using the rather benign TAMIYA Acrylic Lacquer Paints, "just in case..."
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2016 - 05:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for all the input, guys.

Of course I agree with sticking with the same brand thinner.. I use both Tamiya lacquer thinner and Mr Color leveling thinner with Tamiya and Mr Color paints.. but like I said, I don't always find the same brand thinner.. like these IPP paints I saw at Hobbyeasy.. they don't carry their thinner, so I have to look for something else.

By the way, is the Mr Color leveling thinner a lacquer thinner (like Tamiya's with the yellow cap) or is it a regular acrylic thinner (like Tamiya's with the white cap)? Because I used it to thin their Mr Surfacer 1500 Black, but I didn't get as good a result as I usually get when I thin it with Tamiya's lacquer thinner... and strangely enough, I get great results when I thin Ammo MIG and AK paints with this leveling thinner.. but not Vallejo paints!

I guess it's a continuous process of experimentation

Hisham


As with ANY thinner, one should read-up on any information available regarding it's uses. Your using several different thinners with different paints and primers of several different manufacture, with successful and unsuccessful results, are classic examples of what works and what doesn't.

Lesson learned: The VALLEJO Paints are your particular exception to your use of TAMIYA's Leveling Lacquer Thinner.

I personally don't use the MR.COLOR products, aside of their Surface Primers and Spray Paints, because:

a) MR.COLOR Products tend to be more expensive, in my own experiences anyway, and,

b) Other manufacturers' paints, primers and thinners are easier on my wallet, AND easier to find...

Personally, I stick with the thinners that are recommended by the paint manufacturers, i.e, their own. Saves me A LOT of headaches...
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, September 23, 2016 - 07:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

By the way, is the Mr Color leveling thinner a lacquer thinner (like Tamiya's with the yellow cap) or is it a regular acrylic thinner (like Tamiya's with the white cap)? Because I used it to thin their Mr Surfacer 1500 Black, but I didn't get as good a result as I usually get when I thin it with Tamiya's lacquer thinner... and strangely enough, I get great results when I thin Ammo MIG and AK paints with this leveling thinner.. but not Vallejo paints!

I guess it's a continuous process of experimentation


Hisham,
Mr. Color Leveling Thinner is not really a "laquer thinner" in the sense that we modelers use laquer thinner for. It's more like the carrier for the pigment in Mr. Color lacquers. It's designed to "stretch" (level or reduce) the pigment and it will work with Tamiya paints as well, although it's intended for thicker paints (you might note that Mr. Color paints have a different viscosity in the jar than Tamiya lacquers, which tend to be thinner in the jar). There is a long scientific explanation for the "leveler or reducer" qualities vs "thinner" qualities involving chemical reactions, but just think of it this way-- it's like adding water to orange juice concentrate to "level" or "reduce" it to make it more drinkable, vs adding more water to an already mixed orange juice container to "thin it out".
VR Russ
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