I have been eyeing the Tamiya 250/9 in the stack for some years without ever actually building it. I got it out and thought it looked pretty good, simple enough for my basic building skills.

The fine folks at Archer Dry Transfers sent a set of transfers for "6th Panzer Division Sd.Kfz. 250/9 Ausf. B" which I would like to use for this kit.

The markings look simple enough but the sheet with the transfers is somewhat breezy describing the paint. it only says:

"Vehicle is finished in a late war three-color hard edged camouflage scheme of Dunkelgelb, Rot Braun and Oliv grun."

OK, I can guess at some of this like the colors but what would a "late war three-color hard edged camouflage scheme" look like?

Would this have been brushed on or sprayed?

Hey man! Did you try googling it? I made a quick search and there is a lot of good pictures out there. I don't know what it would look like on a 250, but here is one of a 251.


Just google and you'll find a lot!
// Henrik

Thanks Henrik, I search the internet for all sorts of things but it didn't occur to me to try it for this. I would have thought it too complicated to be successful. The drawing you found looks like the description. Thanks for posting it. Would this have been applied with a brush or was it masked and sprayed?

Take your best guess regarding brush vs mask.
For the model, I'd use Silly putty as a mask and spray away.

G

There is no obvious reason why a scheme applied at the factory would be applied by any means other than a spray gun. Brush painting takes ages, uses more paint and is harder to achieve coverage.

Yes, late war camo was sprayed at factory and sometimes using templates.
There are photos also at the field applying camo with a spray gun

And sometimes what appears to be hard edge is just very fine soft edged.

I can't recall where but I have read that, in some instances, the camo colors were sprayed on, afterwhich a brush is used to define the edges.

In painting one's model I agree that Silly Putty or its equivalent is a good masking medium. However, I do the painting in reverse -- starting from the darkest to the lightest, laying the putty mask in between painting / color sessions.

Cheers,

Tat

What is the world coming to? I stopped by Toys 'R' Us to score some silly putty to try this technique out - and they didn't even know where it was or if they even had any!

Nick, Blu-Tack works as well. Cheers, Tat

Hey, Guys!

Please understand that all the "caps" in this post are for EMPHASIS ONLY...

Sprayed AND Brush-painted camo was applied "In the Field" by the Germans throughout WWII, period. When "proper" brushes and/or spray guns weren't available, the Germans used nearly EVERY other means in order to camouflage their vehicles- That means: Brooms, mops, plucked grass, weeds or leaved branches that had been torn from bushes, and believe it or not, hands...

Remember that the Germans used "camouflage paint" that was the consistency of a semi-hard paste, very much like "KIWI SHOE POLISH", which was issued in cans, and was supposed to be thinned-down to a usable liquid in order to be applied. As to thinners for this "paste", the manufacturers chemically formulated it so that almost anything could be used to thin it down- That means: Water, fuel, (both Diesel and gasoline/petrol), kerosene/paraffin, Uncle Otto's Kartoffelsuppe, coffee, tea, waste-oil, and P**S...

Since ALL of the above affected the consistency, covering qualities, drying-times, AND COLOR-VARIATION, no two vehicles were ever EXACTLY ALIKE. That means that the colors themselves varied WIDELY AND WILDLY...

Mind you, I'm talking about German vehicles that were re-painted "in the field". Many German Panzer Crews didn't even bother with all of that, especially when they were deployed in an area where combat was imminent. Many German Tankers, StuG. & Panzerjaeger, and other vehicle Crews just applied local foliage to "camouflage" their vehicles, which when you get right down to it, was MORE EFFECTIVE than all of those fancy camo-schemes that were SOMETIMES, certainly NOT ALWAYS, applied to WWII German vehicles...

Many times, only good ol' MUD was applied by any means necessary, in order to blend in with the surrounding terrain...

If my Onkel Ludwig were still alive today, he'd set A LOT of modellers "straight" on those "perfect" tri-color camos that I see displayed nearly everywhere. BTW, Onkel Ludwig (on Mom's side of the family), served in 1st SS Panzer, so he saw literally everything, first hand...

I'm surprised that so many modellers of mid-late WWII German vehicles do not take "field-expediency" into account when painting their models. True, the camo-schemes applied at the various German manufacturing plants applied their paints in a much more "controlled", "regimented" and "careful" manner, but they still weren't perfect, as it is nearly impossible to place "templates" in EXACTLY the same position EVERY SINGLE TIME...

You want more "realistic" WWII German "camo-jobs"? Don't be so damned "careful" in applying it!!!

Thanks guys. I have two booklets on the 250 and neither has a picture of "Elfi" to show how this vehicle might have been painted. My own predilection is to do a light field toned application so the markings show up better. Without photos to guide me in the correct direction I may just do what feels right.

I'm glad to hear that "reality" has a wide arena to act in . . .

Pondered this question, I don't know how many times. Here is supposedly the original paint cans
http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/member_albums/36103/origin%20colours%20cans.jpg

found it from this site
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=45714

For me the more I Google/Bing the more I need to Google/Bing in hopes I will find my answer until I just give up and post it on Kitmaker (wait and hope Frenchy responds) 8D

Cheers

You're RIGHT!

Since I've started going online when I got my first computer, (this is my second) I have found more and more info everywhere, and I don't know where to look FIRST!

Of course, I search ARMORAMA first, because there are so many knowledgeable modellers here on this site! Yeah, that's a COMPLIMENT to all of you BOZOS!!!

If I don't find, I ask, and my answers nearly ALWAYS come right away from the many great guys that "live" on this site!!!

KUDOS, Gentlemen!!!

I found all three of these pictures helpful, thanks for the links. That green is brighter than I would have figured.

That "Brighter Green" you mentioned CAN be "toned down", from what you see on the can- Remember what I mentioned about the various "thinning agents", and that the WWII German "Tri-color" camo colors varied widely, once applied "in the field" to the vehicles involved...

Given the "spotty" paint-technology of the WWII era, even the more-or-less "Standard" US Olive Drab, Soviet 4BO Green, and British Bronze Green varied, however slightly or obviously, on different vehicles, even right out of the factories...

For example: WWII-era US Olive Drab, according to the specs laid down by the Ordnance Department, which allowed some leeway to be exercised, "was to be manufactured out of a mix of Carbon Black and Ochre Yellow, to match Pullman Green", which was a Railroad Color. Different US Paint Manufacturers had their own ideas, it seems, of what went in and how, this "Standard OD" was to be manufactured. And this, in a country that was virtually untouched by enemy bombs, or invading forces... Europe, specifically Germany, could never have made the same claim, so even simple paint formulas were affected by the war...

But let's take it a step further- For example, the German "Tri-color" camo schemes. The "Rotbraun" and "Schokoladenbraun" varied in tone from a light "Terracotta" to a deep Chocolate Brown or Mulberry Brown, depending on which color was used to begin with, AND the thinner. The "Olivgruen" varied from a light "Pea-Green", (like what comes out of the can, not frozen peas) to a rich, dark "Forest Green", and the "Dunkelgelb" could vary from a light "Parchment" color, down to a dark "Khaki" color, again dependent on the "thinners" involved, outside temperatures, consistencies of the thinned-down pastes, and methods of application. So you see, you really have a very wide berth to work with...

Thanks again Dennis, your comments have been so interesting that I have saved them for future reference.

I'm reminded of the story about the modeler years ago asking a former North American Aviation employee if he could sort out the muddle over B-25 cockpit colors. He is supposed to have said something like " Sure – we used whatever was in the paint locker. If it wasn't the correct color nobody worried about it. There was a war on and the planes had to be finished and gotten out the door."
I don't remember where I heard that story but it sure rings true.

I know Model A Ford people who knock themselves out trying to get everything on their restorations as correct as possible. The problem is that assembly plants used parts up in the order they were delivered and if there was a change it was seldom applied uniformly. There are cases were different spec parts were used on either side of the same car as the workers on one side ran out of old parts before the workers on the other side did.

I'll use some judgement working up this little 250 to make it look good with the markings chosen. In absence of any photos to guide me, best guess will have to do.