Dragon continues their Patton series of tanks with the first plastic kit of an M60. Here Gino P. Quintiliani takes us through a build of this recent offering.
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REVIEW
M60 Patton
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 05:14 PM UTC
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 05:35 PM UTC
Thanks for editing and posting this Darren. Hopefully others will find it useful.
chnoone
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 07:18 PM UTC
Just intime Gino ! Thankx !
I will start on mine this coming weekend.
So 2mm give or take isn't the world ... have seen much worse and the other points you indicated will not make it such a "horrible" kit after all.
AM stuff will come handy here and there .... so your review does make me look forward to building this kit.
Besides all (rightful) criticism aimed at Dragon previously, I must say that trying to ease the "texture" on the AFV Clubs M60s is a real pain and is much more time consuming then expected .... the same work on all their, otherwise, great M60s.
Honestly .... now I'd rather have a 2mm shorter Dragon M60A1/A3 then having to "smoothen" the AFV Club kits every time.
I'll check how the AFV M60A2 turret will fit on the Dragon M60 hull as Plan-B.
Nice review and thankx again !
Cheers
Christopher
I will start on mine this coming weekend.
So 2mm give or take isn't the world ... have seen much worse and the other points you indicated will not make it such a "horrible" kit after all.
AM stuff will come handy here and there .... so your review does make me look forward to building this kit.
Besides all (rightful) criticism aimed at Dragon previously, I must say that trying to ease the "texture" on the AFV Clubs M60s is a real pain and is much more time consuming then expected .... the same work on all their, otherwise, great M60s.
Honestly .... now I'd rather have a 2mm shorter Dragon M60A1/A3 then having to "smoothen" the AFV Club kits every time.
I'll check how the AFV M60A2 turret will fit on the Dragon M60 hull as Plan-B.
Nice review and thankx again !
Cheers
Christopher
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 08:00 PM UTC
Nice review, thanks. Why exactly did they drop the eggshell upper hull?
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 08:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice review, thanks. Why exactly did they drop the eggshell upper hull?
Do you mean the rounded front hull (M48), or the rounded turret (M48/M60)?
Both are better ballistic designs and provide better armor protection against incoming rounds.
The M48-style rounded turret was only put on M60 tanks because the new turret was not available yet and the US Army wanted to get a 105mm gunned tank into the force to counter the Soviet T54 (100mm gun) threat in Europe as quick as they could. The M60A1 used the new turret once it was ready, fielded 22 months later in Oct '62.
Garrand
Joined: October 27, 2009
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 194 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 09:35 PM UTC
IIRC the rounded upper hull was dropped because they wanted to use some sort of composite armor in its construction, which was unfriendly to rounded armor profiles (like the M1 they needed broad flat areas). That design feature was dropped, but the squared off upper hull was not redesigned after the fact...
I am in the closing stages of my built. A couple notes on what I did: I didn't do too much with the hull, as I think it is pretty good, despite the complaints about the lower front. However, some simple improvements would be new drive sprockets with mud relief holes form DEF or Slingshot (or mod them yourself, though I dislike how Dragon molded the drive sprockets -- excessive clean up and not very positive keying to keep it aligned), and replace the stowage box handles with separate items from Tiger Model Designs. On to the turret, I found the basket assembly excessively fiddly, though it goes together eventually. I'm doing the same thing with the searchlight, hanging it off the stowage point. I have to do this, because I used the Tiger Model Designs mantlet cover (which fit perfectly), which had the IR mounts in the wrong place. You could mod this of course, but with the undersized searchlight, I didn't bother and chose to hang it off the stowage point on the rear instead, where it will be less noticable.
I also replaced the barrel with a turned aluminum one (I can't remember the brand ATM), which required a lot of modding of the Tiger Models mantlet to widen the hole. Finally I replaced the commander's cupola with one I was not using from an Academy Mag'Ach kit. I had to saw off the mounting ring, but once done glues down perfectly into the tracks on the Dragon kit. I used a few detail parts from the Dragon kit on the cupola. I plan to shove a figure in the turret once I find something suitable, but if I were to do it again, and had a little more budget, I would replace the cupola with a Legends item.
Overall I'm satisfied with the build, and certainly looks the business!
Damon.
I am in the closing stages of my built. A couple notes on what I did: I didn't do too much with the hull, as I think it is pretty good, despite the complaints about the lower front. However, some simple improvements would be new drive sprockets with mud relief holes form DEF or Slingshot (or mod them yourself, though I dislike how Dragon molded the drive sprockets -- excessive clean up and not very positive keying to keep it aligned), and replace the stowage box handles with separate items from Tiger Model Designs. On to the turret, I found the basket assembly excessively fiddly, though it goes together eventually. I'm doing the same thing with the searchlight, hanging it off the stowage point. I have to do this, because I used the Tiger Model Designs mantlet cover (which fit perfectly), which had the IR mounts in the wrong place. You could mod this of course, but with the undersized searchlight, I didn't bother and chose to hang it off the stowage point on the rear instead, where it will be less noticable.
I also replaced the barrel with a turned aluminum one (I can't remember the brand ATM), which required a lot of modding of the Tiger Models mantlet to widen the hole. Finally I replaced the commander's cupola with one I was not using from an Academy Mag'Ach kit. I had to saw off the mounting ring, but once done glues down perfectly into the tracks on the Dragon kit. I used a few detail parts from the Dragon kit on the cupola. I plan to shove a figure in the turret once I find something suitable, but if I were to do it again, and had a little more budget, I would replace the cupola with a Legends item.
Overall I'm satisfied with the build, and certainly looks the business!
Damon.
avenue
Joined: May 25, 2013
KitMaker: 544 posts
Armorama: 542 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 11:03 AM UTC
dragon do not provide cable for Xenon search light.
2-32sherman
Joined: February 14, 2003
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 12:02 PM UTC
My DRAGON M60 was vuild in six days including the corrections I added, thanks to Pawel āVodnikā Krupowicz! I omitted the corrections of the return rollers, and the shape of the lower hull front and idler axle mount.
2-32sherman
Joined: February 14, 2003
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 12:14 PM UTC
To show the hatches open I made the interior of the loader's hatch out of plastic sheet and lead foil for the handle. The sliding mechanism of the driver's hatch I made of plasic profiles and added a handle bend by wire. I throw the thin and long barrel in the trash, as same as the M19 cupola! For the M19 cupola I have used the very good Legend one's. I had a correct measured resin replacement for the M68 GUN in my huge spare parts storage, that I used.
2-32sherman
Joined: February 14, 2003
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 12:17 PM UTC
With the overall looking of the M60 I'm happy. I could have corrected more of the faults; - but it looks like an M60 "slick"!
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 06:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just intime Gino ! Thankx !
I will start on mine this coming weekend.
So 2mm give or take isn't the world ... have seen much worse and the other points you indicated will not make it such a "horrible" kit after all.
AM stuff will come handy here and there .... so your review does make me look forward to building this kit.
Besides all (rightful) criticism aimed at Dragon previously, I must say that trying to ease the "texture" on the AFV Clubs M60s is a real pain and is much more time consuming then expected .... the same work on all their, otherwise, great M60s.
Honestly .... now I'd rather have a 2mm shorter Dragon M60A1/A3 then having to "smoothen" the AFV Club kits every time.
I'll check how the AFV M60A2 turret will fit on the Dragon M60 hull as Plan-B.
Nice review and thankx again !
Cheers
Christopher
Hi, Christopher!
Though I understand your intense dislike of having to "remove/repair/correct" the texture of the AFV CLUB M60-series kits, I personally don't have any problems doing so. Maybe it's just because I have been building, modifying and correcting other models for such a long time. (since 1958)
I RARELY, if ever, build anything "straight-out-of-the-box", and that is just a personal "foible" of mine- It would be VERY PRESUMPTUOUS and narrow-minded on my part to expect other modellers to follow my example. My models are RIFE with multi-media "updates", corrections, kit-bashes, extra PE, and conversions, so a little extra sanding, re-shaping, sanding and wet-sanding is just "par-for-the-course", as far as I'm concerned. But that's just me- As I've stated in other ARMORAMA threads, "I'm just one of those guys that won't leave well enough alone..."
Other modellers have also stated that they dislike, or even HATE the exaggerated texture of the AFV CLUB M60-series kits, BUT!!!- It just so happens that these same kits ARE better than DRAGON's single foray into the M60A1-A3-series niche with their M60A2, EXCEPT for the texture, which I much prefer to correct, rather than having to deal with the numerous "warts" that DRAGON includes in their M48 thru M60A2 kits. As far as I'm concerned, the DRAGON M60A2 isn't even worth buying...
OK, so AFV CLUB has so far only done the M60A1 thru -A3, but that doesn't mean they won't ever do the earlier M46 thru M60-slicks. I hope they do, and that may take YEARS for AFV CLUB to accomplish- Maybe, they never will. Until such time, I will just follow Gino's and other knowledgeable modellers' advice on this site, in building, correcting and detailing DRAGON's M48 thru M60-slick-series kits...
What else can I do, until something else comes along..?
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 09:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextNice review, thanks. Why exactly did they drop the eggshell upper hull?
Do you mean the rounded front hull (M48), or the rounded turret (M48/M60)?
Both are better ballistic designs and provide better armor protection against incoming rounds.
The M48-style rounded turret was only put on M60 tanks because the new turret was not available yet and the US Army wanted to get a 105mm gunned tank into the force to counter the Soviet T54 (100mm gun) threat in Europe as quick as they could. The M60A1 used the new turret once it was ready, fielded 22 months later in Oct '62.
Hi, Gino!
Just re-read your review of the DRAGON M60-slick! Damned FINE REVIEW! I'm going to be following your advice once I buy this kit! THANKS, MUCH!!!
And Damon, THANKS for your pointers, as well!!!
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 09:30 PM UTC
Glad you guys are finding the review helpful. I am at the painting stage now. I'll post some pics when done.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 09:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Glad you guys are finding the review helpful. I am at the painting stage now. I'll post some pics when done.
Hi, Gino!
I'll be interested to see which exterior colors you'll be using- There is another thread going on here at ARMORAMA, where the guys are discussing various paint schemes, such as the "standard OD" color, versus the MASSTER and MERDC color schemes. It'll be interesting to read your "take" on that subject...
(see the "M60 IN MASSTER CAMO?" thread)
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 10:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi, Gino!
I'll be interested to see which exterior colors you'll be using- There is another thread going on here at ARMORAMA, where the guys are discussing various paint schemes, such as the "standard OD" color, versus the MASSTER and MERDC color schemes. It'll be interesting to read your "take" on that subject...
(see the "M60 IN MASSTER CAMO?" thread)
I am following that one too, posted in it as well. I will be doing this one in standard Dark OD Green, similar to the M48A1 Berlin BDE one I did a short time ago. I am keeping this one as an early M60.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 02:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Hi, Gino!
I'll be interested to see which exterior colors you'll be using- There is another thread going on here at ARMORAMA, where the guys are discussing various paint schemes, such as the "standard OD" color, versus the MASSTER and MERDC color schemes. It'll be interesting to read your "take" on that subject...
(see the "M60 IN MASSTER CAMO?" thread)
I am following that one too, posted in it as well. I will be doing this one in standard Dark OD Green, similar to the M48A1 Berlin BDE one I did a short time ago. I am keeping this one as an early M60.
Thanks for answering, Gino! Your M48A1 Berlin BDE build is a real "STAR"!!!
VERY INTERESTED in how your M60-slick will turn out- I'll probably be asking more questions of you, as you go...
bots1141
Joined: October 14, 2013
KitMaker: 318 posts
Armorama: 313 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 05:28 PM UTC
I just bought this kit the other day but Im not sure what "dark olive drab" actually looks like because I cant find any modern color photos or paint chips to go off of. Using Tamiya paints, what ratio olive drab to black do i use???
phantom8747
Joined: March 09, 2015
KitMaker: 281 posts
Armorama: 273 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 06:19 PM UTC
I think I'll wait and see if AFV Club decides to release an M60.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 09:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I just bought this kit the other day but Im not sure what "dark olive drab" actually looks like because I cant find any modern color photos or paint chips to go off of. Using Tamiya paints, what ratio olive drab to black do i use???
I use either Krylon Camo Colors Olive or Rustoluem Camo Colors Dark Forest Green (both colors look the same to my eye), both in a spray can. For overall finishes, spray cans work great for me. Testors Model Master Dark Green works well too. Sorry, no idea on Tamiya paints since I don't use them.
Here is what the Krylon Olive looks like.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 06, 2016 - 05:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI just bought this kit the other day but Im not sure what "dark olive drab" actually looks like because I cant find any modern color photos or paint chips to go off of. Using Tamiya paints, what ratio olive drab to black do i use???
I use either Krylon Camo Colors Olive or Rustoluem Camo Colors Dark Forest Green (both colors look the same to my eye), both in a spray can. For overall finishes, spray cans work great for me. Testors Model Master Dark Green works well too. Sorry, no idea on Tamiya paints since I don't use them.
Here is what the Krylon Olive looks like.
AGREE- I prefer petroleum-based enamels and lacquers, myself; less clogging in my airbrushes, smoother flows, and to my eye, at least, more accurate color representation, as far as 1/35 scale goes...
I like the KRYLONS in the spray cans, TESTORS MODEL MASTER II Enamels and Lacquers, both in the bottles and in the spray cans... For my "Natural Metal" schemes on my 1/48 aircraft, I like the MODEL MASTER II "Metalizer" Lacquers in the spray cans and in the bottles, and the ALCLAD Lacquers, as well...
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 06, 2016 - 07:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI just bought this kit the other day but Im not sure what "dark olive drab" actually looks like because I cant find any modern color photos or paint chips to go off of. Using Tamiya paints, what ratio olive drab to black do i use???
I use either Krylon Camo Colors Olive or Rustoluem Camo Colors Dark Forest Green (both colors look the same to my eye), both in a spray can. For overall finishes, spray cans work great for me. Testors Model Master Dark Green works well too. Sorry, no idea on Tamiya paints since I don't use them.
Here is what the Krylon Olive looks like.
I LIKE IT!!! I think that I will follow suit with an "early" M60-"slick", myself....
In the farthest reaches of my childhood memories, I remember seeing US Tanks like your M48 shown above, on TV...
VERY NICELY DONE, Gino! I like the restrained weathering, and the "eggshell" semi-matte finish overall! THAT'S the 1960s "look" that I remember best, along with the "hi-viz" markings!
Tankerman
Joined: June 14, 2006
KitMaker: 54 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Friday, October 07, 2016 - 02:17 PM UTC
Gino thanks for the review. Illuminating and seems like the errors are fixable.
Tankerman
Joined: June 14, 2006
KitMaker: 54 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Friday, October 07, 2016 - 02:20 PM UTC
bots1141, Use Tamiya's JGSDF dark OD for your M60. Nice approximatio of the darked 50s/60s OD. Semigloss finish will look snazzy as Gino'ss build shows
Tankerman
Joined: June 14, 2006
KitMaker: 54 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Friday, October 07, 2016 - 02:21 PM UTC
I meant nice approximation of the darker 1950s/1960s OD. Fat fingered it. ;-)
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Friday, October 07, 2016 - 06:45 PM UTC
Thanks Laramie, glad the review was helpful. I should have some pics of the finished product this weekend; weathering it now.
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