New project-
November 2003, Chinook CH-47D plucks some "APUC" individuals, captured by 10th Mountain Division, off the roof of an Afghani mountain village structure.
Helo and figures ordered... ideas formenting... and hmmm... is this going to be fun or what?
Dioramas
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Operation Mountain Resolve
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 01:21 AM UTC
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 04:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
New project-
November 2003, Chinook CH-47D plucks some "APUC" individuals, captured by 10th Mountain Division, off the roof of an Afghani mountain village structure.
Helo and figures ordered... ideas formenting... and hmmm... is this going to be fun or what?
Patrick-- you let the cat out of the bag!! Ok, Check your email-- photo of a 242d Heavy lift Company "Muleskinners" CH47A pulling a mired M113 out of a rice paddy in VN circa 1966. A better photo of this operation appears as a centerfold in the book ""Vietnam Tracks" by Dunston. The trick for both Patrick and I will be to get the proper look of the rotors whirling. I've got some ideas, but then again I've had those ideas for about three years-- and have yet to put them into practice. Spoiler alert-- mine will be harder to do, as I need to "elevate" my Helo with two thin cargo straps-- Patrick can park the whole rear end on top of a building!! But both should be fun! Here's mine:
http://militarymashup.com/mmu_get_jpeg.php?1d56581fd3f894eede2d25c75c9256244
VR, Russ
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 05:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextNew project-
November 2003, Chinook CH-47D plucks some "APUC" individuals, captured by 10th Mountain Division, off the roof of an Afghani mountain village structure.
Helo and figures ordered... ideas formenting... and hmmm... is this going to be fun or what?
Patrick-- you let the cat out of the bag!! Ok, Check your email-- photo of a 242d Heavy lift Company "Muleskinners" CH47A pulling a mired M113 out of a rice paddy in VN circa 1966. A better photo of this operation appears as a centerfold in the book ""Vietnam Tracks" by Dunston. The trick for both Patrick and I will be to get the proper look of the rotors whirling. I've got some ideas, but then again I've had those ideas for about three years-- and have yet to put them into practice. Spoiler alert-- mine will be harder to do, as I need to "elevate" my Helo with two thin cargo straps-- Patrick can park the whole rear end on top of a building!! But both should be fun! Here's mine:
http://militarymashup.com/mmu_get_jpeg.php?1d56581fd3f894eede2d25c75c9256244
VR, Russ
OOOPPPS! As my girlfriend will tell you, I am really bad at keeping secrets! And I guess I did let it out but I just want to let people know I am moving on!
Got your photo the other day and I think is going to be more than fun! I am mulling the rotor issue as well and have a few other tricks up my sleeve for this one!
We are gonna have fun! Maybe we should make this a diorama campaign! There's a new one! I always like to be the troublemaker!
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:26 AM UTC
This is on the USS Lexington in Corpus Christi, Texas an their model museum area. Also in October 2013 issue of FSM.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:33 AM UTC
Patrick,
We might as well let the cat go completely out of the bag-- and invite any others into this "47's picking up stuff" tandem build. I'm looking for any input from others on how to make my '47 "fly". So far I have a small collection of micro-motors from old cell phones I'm trying to work with to get those blades turning, but haven't decided wether I should do some gearing with one motor, or go with two motors. This is where Model RR experience comes in I suppose. The real trick is holding up the '47-- I'm planning on using some K&S brass strip for cargo straps, with a slight twist for strength to support the weight-- that's why I'm going with 1/72 to save weight (as the cargo straps were fairly heavy and a twist would be sort of normal anyway). I started with Trumpeters 1/72 CH 47A, with an Italeri M113. There is another photo of this operation showing four straps too-- I might need to go with that, but the 113 is almost all on the road so it's not quite as interesting. I was able to track down the pilot who flew this mission on the Chinnok Association web site, who gave me the tail number and Boeing Build number. Unfortunately this aircraft was destroyed in a ground attack at Chu Chi in 1969. Getting those blades turning is going to be interesting, So-- if anyone has any suggestions, for Patrick and I on this interesting dual build, let us know!
VR, Russ
We might as well let the cat go completely out of the bag-- and invite any others into this "47's picking up stuff" tandem build. I'm looking for any input from others on how to make my '47 "fly". So far I have a small collection of micro-motors from old cell phones I'm trying to work with to get those blades turning, but haven't decided wether I should do some gearing with one motor, or go with two motors. This is where Model RR experience comes in I suppose. The real trick is holding up the '47-- I'm planning on using some K&S brass strip for cargo straps, with a slight twist for strength to support the weight-- that's why I'm going with 1/72 to save weight (as the cargo straps were fairly heavy and a twist would be sort of normal anyway). I started with Trumpeters 1/72 CH 47A, with an Italeri M113. There is another photo of this operation showing four straps too-- I might need to go with that, but the 113 is almost all on the road so it's not quite as interesting. I was able to track down the pilot who flew this mission on the Chinnok Association web site, who gave me the tail number and Boeing Build number. Unfortunately this aircraft was destroyed in a ground attack at Chu Chi in 1969. Getting those blades turning is going to be interesting, So-- if anyone has any suggestions, for Patrick and I on this interesting dual build, let us know!
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
This is on the USS Lexington in Corpus Christi, Texas an their model museum area. Also in October 2013 issue of FSM.
Well that's a beautiful model-- Patrick -- does this change your plans? -- I hope not, because it would still be a great dio--- wouldn't be the first time a photo is turned into a model multiple times. Anyone know what scale this is?
VR, Russ
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:40 AM UTC
Sorry, It is the 1/35 Trumpeter CH-47D.
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:46 AM UTC
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 07:17 PM UTC
1/35th? It must be YUGE!
As far as rethinking, Russ, it might... but I have another CH-47 idea since that has been done. This one is a little more complex but might be more fun. Let me see if I can find a photo of it...
Only reason I might change my mind is I just don't like to do someone else's idea. Kind of like taking your sister to the high school prom.
Later!
Post script... after reading the build log for this project, I am so impressed that I am waving off Operation Mountain Resolve (sorry, Russ) but am researching another project relating to the CH-47 since I already ordered the kit and the figures! My new idea will be worth seeing (I hope!)
As far as rethinking, Russ, it might... but I have another CH-47 idea since that has been done. This one is a little more complex but might be more fun. Let me see if I can find a photo of it...
Only reason I might change my mind is I just don't like to do someone else's idea. Kind of like taking your sister to the high school prom.
Later!
Post script... after reading the build log for this project, I am so impressed that I am waving off Operation Mountain Resolve (sorry, Russ) but am researching another project relating to the CH-47 since I already ordered the kit and the figures! My new idea will be worth seeing (I hope!)
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 07:25 PM UTC
I am reminded of something I saw happen during Operation "Just Cause" in Panama in '89.
My platoon had been sent back to gather up some of the companies' gear that was still at the DZ and also to try to "liberate" additional supplies from the heavy drop palettes. All of the heavy drop stuff,IE vehicles and supply palettes,had dropped on the east side of the runway in the swamp.
I saw a CH-47 trying to pull a Sheridan tank up out of the muck far enough so it could be drug to firmer ground. It made a few attempts and then it started to suck a deployed parachute canopy up into the rotors. So it had to "cut bait" by dropping the slings and head out so it wouldn't crash.
That strange scene has always stuck with me for some reason bu then again,that day was my one and only combat jump so a lot of it got "burned in" my memory.
J
My platoon had been sent back to gather up some of the companies' gear that was still at the DZ and also to try to "liberate" additional supplies from the heavy drop palettes. All of the heavy drop stuff,IE vehicles and supply palettes,had dropped on the east side of the runway in the swamp.
I saw a CH-47 trying to pull a Sheridan tank up out of the muck far enough so it could be drug to firmer ground. It made a few attempts and then it started to suck a deployed parachute canopy up into the rotors. So it had to "cut bait" by dropping the slings and head out so it wouldn't crash.
That strange scene has always stuck with me for some reason bu then again,that day was my one and only combat jump so a lot of it got "burned in" my memory.
J
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 08:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I am reminded of something I saw happen during Operation "Just Cause" in Panama in '89.
My platoon had been sent back to gather up some of the companies' gear that was still at the DZ and also to try to "liberate" additional supplies from the heavy drop palettes. All of the heavy drop stuff,IE vehicles and supply palettes,had dropped on the east side of the runway in the swamp.
I saw a CH-47 trying to pull a Sheridan tank up out of the muck far enough so it could be drug to firmer ground. It made a few attempts and then it started to suck a deployed parachute canopy up into the rotors. So it had to "cut bait" by dropping the slings and head out so it wouldn't crash.
That strange scene has always stuck with me for some reason bu then again,that day was my one and only combat jump so a lot of it got "burned in" my memory.
J
Wow! Jerry, that is quite a story! Something in there for Russ!
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 08:48 PM UTC
Patrick,
I didn't mean to post the pictures of the diorama for discouragement or anything like that. It was meant more for inspiration and help on your build.
I didn't mean to post the pictures of the diorama for discouragement or anything like that. It was meant more for inspiration and help on your build.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 08:53 PM UTC
Great idea. Based on your previous work, it should be awesome.
Pete's dio is of a similar event, we can always use another.
Once you start the helo, be sure to post about it in the Aeroscale Rotary Wing Forum too. Aeroscale is the aircraft side of Armorama/Kitmaker Network. Lots of great guys/gals there too with lots of helo knowledge.
Pete's dio is of a similar event, we can always use another.
Once you start the helo, be sure to post about it in the Aeroscale Rotary Wing Forum too. Aeroscale is the aircraft side of Armorama/Kitmaker Network. Lots of great guys/gals there too with lots of helo knowledge.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 10:30 PM UTC
Patrick,
I understand your reluctance to do something already done, no problem from my end-- I have been working on my Vietnam pull for about three years now, off and on, mostly in detailing the Helo, experimenting with wiring and support stuff, and research. Turns out the Helo in question might have pulled out several different 113s that day, that were purposely "sunk" to determine if it could be done. When I spoke to the pilot three years ago, he told me it was an incredibly dangerous operation, and the Army had given up on it because it was so dangerous. Had the cargo straps snapped, momentum would likely have carried the aircraft into the ground--although it was considered a successful test because it did work-- in Jerry's example in 1983, it probably would have worked too had it not been for the parachute- the M551 is rated at about 17 tons as I recall, give or take a few lbs. but I think the D model is rated for up to 23,000 lbs, lift capacity, which probabably would be enough for towing a Sheridan out-- but again dangerous. Now a CH54 could lift all of these vehicles straight up, no problem, and did so on several occasions in Vietnam acccording to "Vietnam Tracks". My next door neighbor flies the CH54 as a contractor all over the western US-- they can do some amazing lifting.
VR, Russ
I understand your reluctance to do something already done, no problem from my end-- I have been working on my Vietnam pull for about three years now, off and on, mostly in detailing the Helo, experimenting with wiring and support stuff, and research. Turns out the Helo in question might have pulled out several different 113s that day, that were purposely "sunk" to determine if it could be done. When I spoke to the pilot three years ago, he told me it was an incredibly dangerous operation, and the Army had given up on it because it was so dangerous. Had the cargo straps snapped, momentum would likely have carried the aircraft into the ground--although it was considered a successful test because it did work-- in Jerry's example in 1983, it probably would have worked too had it not been for the parachute- the M551 is rated at about 17 tons as I recall, give or take a few lbs. but I think the D model is rated for up to 23,000 lbs, lift capacity, which probabably would be enough for towing a Sheridan out-- but again dangerous. Now a CH54 could lift all of these vehicles straight up, no problem, and did so on several occasions in Vietnam acccording to "Vietnam Tracks". My next door neighbor flies the CH54 as a contractor all over the western US-- they can do some amazing lifting.
VR, Russ
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Patrick,
I didn't mean to post the pictures of the diorama for discouragement or anything like that. It was meant more for inspiration and help on your build.
You didn't discourage me at all. Just pointed me in a different direction for the project! And some of what this guy did will help tremendously!
I am not going to the large scale that he used (1/35th) but will use the Trumpeter 1/72nd scale so a lot of the detailing that was done won't be on this one... plus I need something manageable in size.
Never fear! I will be working on the helo first and moving mountains after that!
Thanks for the encouragement!
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Great idea. Based on your previous work, it should be awesome.
Pete's dio is of a similar event, we can always use another.
Once you start the helo, be sure to post about it in the Aeroscale Rotary Wing Forum too. Aeroscale is the aircraft side of Armorama/Kitmaker Network. Lots of great guys/gals there too with lots of helo knowledge.
Gino, I just read all seven pages of posts from the above referenced build. And while it is not unusual to see different takes on the same scene (the original was an unfriendly extraction and the diorama was a med evac), I am still going to go a different direction.
I take it from all your posts that you are (were) the right seat guy in a CH-47? I would be interested to know if you have ever seen the video of the guy backing his '47 into a hillside where there is a trail to pick up a squad that is waiting on the hillside? The pilot makes his first attempt, pulls forward and then gently backs into the hillside trail and hovers with the ramp about 6" off the ground and the grunts start running to the rear. Just wondering if you had seen it... trying to find that link but military computers don't allow access to much video.
Anyway, thanks for the comments and I liked all you input. As for the frozen rotor part, I have way too many photos of medical evac helos with them frozen. A nice fast shutter speed makes for a cool photo!
Look forward to your input!
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Monday, November 07, 2016 - 11:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Patrick,
I understand your reluctance to do something already done, no problem from my end-- I have been working on my Vietnam pull for about three years now, off and on, mostly in detailing the Helo, experimenting with wiring and support stuff, and research. Turns out the Helo in question might have pulled out several different 113s that day, that were purposely "sunk" to determine if it could be done. When I spoke to the pilot three years ago, he told me it was an incredibly dangerous operation, and the Army had given up on it because it was so dangerous. Had the cargo straps snapped, momentum would likely have carried the aircraft into the ground--although it was considered a successful test because it did work-- in Jerry's example in 1983, it probably would have worked too had it not been for the parachute- the M551 is rated at about 17 tons as I recall, give or take a few lbs. but I think the D model is rated for up to 23,000 lbs, lift capacity, which probabably would be enough for towing a Sheridan out-- but again dangerous. Now a CH54 could lift all of these vehicles straight up, no problem, and did so on several occasions in Vietnam acccording to "Vietnam Tracks". My next door neighbor flies the CH54 as a contractor all over the western US-- they can do some amazing lifting.
VR, Russ
Living close to EAFB, and having two different med evac services close, we got a lot of traffic. Also, fires have lot of aerial attack units, so whenever I hear the "thwop-thwop-thwop" of an approaching 'ship, I grab my camera and go! And I get to see lots of stuff... and that gives me yet another idea... make that #4 on the list! I will post some photos if I can find them of all the ideas!
Jerry's story was so close to yours, I thought it was cool.
As for supporting your helo, I have an idea... I will PM it to you! It might work if you can get the correct tensile strength.
Thanks again for your words. As soon as I find a new name, I will get it in another thread!
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 12:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I take it from all your posts that you are (were) the right seat guy in a CH-47?
Nope, I've always been one of the GIBs. I am an artilleryman by trade, but an avid admirer of helos and take every chance I can to go up. They are great fun. I have seen the video you are talking about, but don't have a link to it either, sorry.
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 01:27 AM UTC
Gino,
I found it but won't be able to post a link until later.
Thank you for your service as one of the GIB. You are an asset to our country and you and all like you deserve our thanks!
Now you know where I am going with this... It was my original idea a while back!
I found it but won't be able to post a link until later.
Thank you for your service as one of the GIB. You are an asset to our country and you and all like you deserve our thanks!
Now you know where I am going with this... It was my original idea a while back!
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 03:06 AM UTC
All this '47 talk reminds me of the time in 1982 when I was riding in the troop commander's seat of a 242nd AVN CO Chinook flying out of Gray Army Airfield at Fort Lewis when every warning light and alarm bell in the cockpit went off. We were at about 5000 feet, but were forced down in a postage stamp sized pasture in the Olympic Mountains of Washington State, 15 of my troops in the back with one 1/4 ton. The Avn Company Maintenance bird flew in, dropped off the maintenance tech and a tool chest and the crew of our bird proceeded to break down and replace the transmission right in that pasture. It was a warm summer day, so my troops were out eating all the Blackberries they could find. About 8 hours after we were forced down, the crew had pulled and replaced the offending transmission, right there with a couple of unconcerned cows wandering around-- one so curious it almost came up the ramp. There was a small cabin up the road, and the pilots wanted me to accompany them to the cabin to let the land owner know we were going to take off, but because the size of the pasture and position of the aircraft, we might "do some damage". We were met at the door by a bearded old man looking over the sights of an antique double barrel shotgun with both hammers pulled back! He was not happy to see us at all. We carefully explained who we were, and sheepishly asked him if he would get word back to Fort Lewis if anything happened on takeoff, the pilots handing over thier business cards. Not sure what bothered me more, the guy with the shotgun, or the pilots telling him we might not get off the ground safely! It was a tricky takeoff, as to gain lift in a '47, you need a certain amount of forward movement, and we had trees within 15 ft of the rotors, requiring a straight up and turn maneuver. I was again in the troop commander's seat between the two pilots and just behind-- I'd never seen the tops of fir trees that close before- they were also flying with the FOD screens and cowling that had been removed off one engine, and there was a lot of flying debris, we were so close to the trees. I held my breath as fir branches went flying past as the nose grazed the treetops, but it was all good and we got back to Lewis about 45 minutes later-- with branches stuck in both front and rear landing gear-- it was an interesting flight to say the least!
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 07:20 PM UTC
Great story, Russ!
How would you rate the pucker factor? LOL!
How would you rate the pucker factor? LOL!
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 09:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Great story, Russ!
How would you rate the pucker factor? LOL!
The pucker was up-- both in the air and on the ground! But I have to say it was up more on the ground with the guy in the cabin, so in reality I was happy to get in the air-- I had great faith in those pilots-- many of whom were Vietnam vets with lots of expereince-- and the US military really does train them well. I've flown in a lot of Helos (and other military aircraft as other vets have too) in my 30 years, among them UH-1s, -58s, -47s Blackhawks, -46s & H-53s (I did test work with the Marines for 3 years at Pendleton and Lejeune). One highlight of my career was when I flew from Seoul to Uijonbu with my wife (and other commander's wives too) aboard a -47 as we were moving the distaff side (wives) on a high level staff meeting with emphasis on family situations and deployments after 9/11. She doesn't like flying, but she actually didn't think it was too bad. I know you have another project in mind-- but another of my memorable "flights" was in a UH-1D flown by the 2nd Inf. Division ADC (assistant division commander-- a BG) who was a skilled Vietnam era Helo driver-- he deposited our small group atop a mountain in Korea in the summer of 1987, the LZ was about the size of a queen-size mattress-- he had one skid on the LZ, the other was in the air off the side-- we dismounted on the right side-- he did that four times to get us all in-- it was very much like your dio plans in reverse-- I might build one like that some day!
VR, Russ
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