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Dragon: Pz.Kpfw.VI (7.5cm) Ausf. B
tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
#040
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Metro Manila, Philippines
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 11:01 AM UTC


Dragon announced its Pz.Kpfw.VI (7.5cm) Ausf. B for release on January 2017.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
Bizarre
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 12:17 PM UTC
interesting project!
hutch2336
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England - North, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 12:42 PM UTC
Another Dragon misdirection!
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 12:47 PM UTC
I have to admit that I have always wanted a kit of this one merely because it is such a mix of features from other panzers. But all new tooling? For this? If they're going for a all new tooled kit why not a Stuart or Lee? The mind boggles.
FlorinM
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Bucuresti, Romania
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 02:06 PM UTC
Looks like a VK 30.06 to me
darreng
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 02:33 PM UTC
Yes, yes, yes thank you Dragon I've always wanted one of these
basco
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Solothurn, Switzerland
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 04:04 PM UTC
and the Dragon bashing goes on and on...
Cantstopbuyingkits
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European Union
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:51 PM UTC
Is that a side hatch being blocked by the fender on the CAD?
tatbaqui
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:01 PM UTC
Using Panzer Tracts 6 as guide, it shows a break in the fender thus exposing the side hatch.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 07:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have to admit that I have always wanted a kit of this one merely because it is such a mix of features from other panzers. But all new tooling? For this? If they're going for a all new tooled kit why not a Stuart or Lee? The mind boggles.


Hi, Steve!

I'm reasonably sure that all-new tooling for this new kit was probably necessary, because if one looks closely, the major components of this new kit, really don't share much in the way of parts that could be gleaned from DRAGON's already existing WWII German Armor kits, at least to my eye, anyway...

And new kits of the M3/M3A1 and M3 Lee/Grants from DRAGON? As I've written in another thread, I seriously DOUBT that we'll EVER see entirely new kits of Stuarts and Lee/Grants in 1/35 from ANYONE ever again in our, or the "Illuminati's" lifetimes...

This new "Pz.VI" is great for WWII German AFV fans, but as far as I am personally concerned, I'm under-whelmed...

PS- Steve, MY mind is boggled, too...

Tim, I think you're right as far as the Fender blocking the Escape Hatch is concerned- I think that it's probably just a mistake in the CAD-drawing...
Unreality
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 09:38 PM UTC
I count this as a big win, especially for Dragon. Completely new tooling, so no rehashed molds. And they aren't doing DS tracks, which is a welcomed surprise. I hope they do more prototype tanks like this...I'm loving the direction Dragon is going lately.
MikeyBugs95
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 10:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks like a VK 30.06 to me


VK 36.01?
Unreality
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 10:42 PM UTC
Well, I was excited until I found out that a new company called Revosys is doing 2 versions of the VK3601 with full interiors. Dragon's version is still different in some ways, but I don't think they can compete with a full interior kit.

http://www.moxingfans.com/new/liao/2016/0512/1922_5.html

Another website showed CAD drawings that looked just like Amusing Hobby's kits.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 11:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Looks like a VK 30.06 to me


VK 36.01?


Hi, Mikey!

I'm inclined to agree with you- But we need to differentiate exactly WHICH VK.3601 this kit is supposed to represent. This model looks like it would better represent a properly "built up" version of the Henschel entry of the heavy Tank requirement, what with it's inter-leaved Road Wheels, a more conventional Torsion Bar Suspension, and a petrol Engine, so in this case we would be discussing the VK3601(H).

Conversely, the Porsche version, the VK3001(P), had conventionally mounted Road Wheels, connected to longitudinal Torsion Bar Suspension components, and a Petrol-Electric Drive system, which was later developed for use in the Porsche Pz.Kpfw.VI(P), the Pz.Kpfw.VI(P) Befehlspanzer, and in the Ferdinand/Elefant Jagdpanzers...

Neither the Henschel or the Porsche VK.3001-requirement vehicles were accepted for service, and WERE ONLY BUILT with simulated Turrets for testing purposes, so can we assume that DRAGON's kit is a conjectural vehicle?
Bravo1102
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 01:19 AM UTC
This CAD could be a "representational image only, real product may vary" in which case nothing in the image can be taken to be in any way indicative of the final kit configuration.

Speculation is wonderful but at this stage pointless. The actual kit could be totally different or even include the options so far discussed.
pstansell
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 01:42 AM UTC
I have been doing some snooping around about Revosys. It appears to be Tango Uniform, before it even got off the ground.

This was recent news and I have a strong suspicion that Dragon wisely procured the tooling, which was complete. It's way too much of a coincidence.

The test shots of the different versions were very nice. Nothing to lady about for sure.

Pat
MMiR
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 03:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Looks like a VK 30.06 to me


VK 36.01?


Hi, Mikey!

I'm inclined to agree with you- But we need to differentiate exactly WHICH VK.3601 this kit is supposed to represent. This model looks like it would better represent a properly "built up" version of the Henschel entry of the heavy Tank requirement, what with it's inter-leaved Road Wheels, a more conventional Torsion Bar Suspension, and a petrol Engine, so in this case we would be discussing the VK3601(H).

Conversely, the Porsche version, the VK3001(P), had conventionally mounted Road Wheels, connected to longitudinal Torsion Bar Suspension components, and a Petrol-Electric Drive system, which was later developed for use in the Porsche Pz.Kpfw.VI(P), the Pz.Kpfw.VI(P) Befehlspanzer, and in the Ferdinand/Elefant Jagdpanzers...

Neither the Henschel or the Porsche VK.3001-requirement vehicles were accepted for service, and WERE ONLY BUILT with simulated Turrets for testing purposes, so can we assume that DRAGON's kit is a conjectural vehicle?


Does this kit perhaps have anything to do with that Asuka announcement you mentioned on this thread , Dennis?
Taeuss
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 06:18 AM UTC
I realize that everyone has produced literally everything so they have to offer something for we, the frenzied hoarders, but prototypes that probably never got off the drawing board are getting rather tedious. It is rather brave to assume -as Dragon obviously does- that lots of us 50-something builders have nothing left to build and will gladly part with the good part of a hundred dollars for a kit of a tank that never existed. After the prototype Panthers and their mixed reviews I'm not sure all-new-toolings means very much to me any more.
Thirian24
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 06:36 AM UTC
Very cool. I wonder what kind of camo schemes this would have had? I did a Google search, but nothing turned up.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 08:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Very cool. I wonder what kind of camo schemes this would have had? I did a Google search, but nothing turned up.

Think panzer IV Ausf F/G

Prototypes in 1941 so maybe an operational prototype rushed to the front for Barbarossa and production vehicles entering service mid 1942?

Since it's total conjecture it could be in any color you want.
MikeyBugs95
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 09:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I realize that everyone has produced literally everything so they have to offer something for we, the frenzied hoarders, but prototypes that probably never got off the drawing board are getting rather tedious. It is rather brave to assume -as Dragon obviously does- that lots of us 50-something builders have nothing left to build and will gladly part with the good part of a hundred dollars for a kit of a tank that never existed. After the prototype Panthers and their mixed reviews I'm not sure all-new-toolings means very much to me any more.


Actually, a quick google search shows that this tank did indeed exist, at least the hull from what quick searching I did.
Removed by original poster on 11/12/16 - 06:03:37 (GMT).
VelluS
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Keski-Suomi, Finland
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 11:04 AM UTC
And at least two turret shells. There is a picture from factory floor (Krupp?) showing hull of a Maus and two turret shells for this tank.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 03:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Looks like a VK 30.06 to me


VK 36.01?


Hi, Mikey!

I'm inclined to agree with you- But we need to differentiate exactly WHICH VK.3601 this kit is supposed to represent. This model looks like it would better represent a properly "built up" version of the Henschel entry of the heavy Tank requirement, what with it's inter-leaved Road Wheels, a more conventional Torsion Bar Suspension, and a petrol Engine, so in this case we would be discussing the VK3601(H).

Conversely, the Porsche version, the VK3001(P), had conventionally mounted Road Wheels, connected to longitudinal Torsion Bar Suspension components, and a Petrol-Electric Drive system, which was later developed for use in the Porsche Pz.Kpfw.VI(P), the Pz.Kpfw.VI(P) Befehlspanzer, and in the Ferdinand/Elefant Jagdpanzers...

Neither the Henschel or the Porsche VK.3001-requirement vehicles were accepted for service, and WERE ONLY BUILT with simulated Turrets for testing purposes, so can we assume that DRAGON's kit is a conjectural vehicle?


Does this kit perhaps have anything to do with that Asuka announcement you mentioned on this thread , Dennis?


Hi, Tim!

I don't think so; in that ASUKA thread, the "VK-something-or-other" that I mentioned quite a few months ago, I didn't enlarge on that German vehicle because I didn't know much about it. I thought that it MIGHT have been an ASUKA kit because it seemed to be placed so close to the other ASUKA kits' display. I'm not at all sure that the vehicle that I was looking at at the time, was supposed to represent the model that we're discussing in this thread. I mentioned this model in passing, because it was included in the same photo of the ASUKA Shermans and the more modern Japanese Type 74 MBT. Sorry for any confusion...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, November 11, 2016 - 03:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I realize that everyone has produced literally everything so they have to offer something for we, the frenzied hoarders, but prototypes that probably never got off the drawing board are getting rather tedious. It is rather brave to assume -as Dragon obviously does- that lots of us 50-something builders have nothing left to build and will gladly part with the good part of a hundred dollars for a kit of a tank that never existed. After the prototype Panthers and their mixed reviews I'm not sure all-new-toolings means very much to me any more.


Actually, a quick google search shows that this tank did indeed exist, at least the hull from what quick searching I did.


Hi, All!

As I mentioned in my original posting to this thread, there were only two manufacturers involved in this Heer requirement for a "heavy" Tank- Henschel's VK.3001(H), and Porsche's VK.3001(P). There were several prototype vehicles of these two contenders built by both manufacturers, NONE of which were equipped with actual Turrets.

As mentioned by Mikey and Veli-Matti, Krupp was to supply Turrets, but that never happened, because Hitler stuck his big nose into this program, and all further development with these vehicles was terminated, in favor of the new VK.4501 requirement, which eventually culminated in the Pz.Kpfw.VI, Tiger Ausf.E (Sd.Kfz.181)...

Steve- You're right, of course, that the CAD-drawing is only a "representational" drawing, and in agreeing with Tim, I did mention that the Fender in the DRAGON CAD-drawing of this vehicle DOES indeed block the Escape Hatch. I also stated that I was pretty sure that this was only a mistake on DRAGON's part, further enforcing the fact that this drawing IS just "representational". Initial CAD drawings generally do not depict what we eventually wind up actually getting in the box. Many times, manufacturers will correct or amend their products before the kits are finally approved for production. There ARE of course, exceptions to this rule!

BTW- Regarding "camo-schemes"- As Steve mentioned, these vehicles were in the 1941-'42 time-frame, so IMO, I'm thinking that PANZERGRAU would probably be a likely choice. However, since the program was cancelled, we can only surmise what camo-schemes MIGHT have been applied to these vehicles, had they actually made it into production. The German "Tri-color" camo-scheme didn't find it's way into production until February of 1943, and we really DON'T KNOW what MIGHT have happened as far as actual battle-experience with these "Pz.VI" vehicles is concerned. It's entirely possible, given the actual progression of the war on the Eastern Front, that these VK.3001/Pz.VI vehicles might have become failures in combat, vis-a-vis the Soviet T-34/85s. The Soviets MIGHT also have accelerated the the development and deployment of their IS-I & II Heavy Tanks, in anticipation of things to come from the Germans. Let's remember that the Russian Military has never really been "slow on the up-take". In fact, their T-34 alone, was quite a bit ahead of it's own time...

PS- The CAD drawing ALSO depicts what looks like the Henschel VK.4501(H) Road Wheels and Track- Photos of the ACTUAL Henschel VK.3001(H) prototypes obviously show NARROWER Track and SMALLER Road Wheels. IMO, DRAGON took a little bit of "artistic license" in this respect, as well as providing "Krupp Turrets". So, gentlemen, WOT..?
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