Hi guys. Would anyone know what the weird objects on the turret are? They look like wind shield wipers, sticking out here and there. There are a couple sticking up from the counter weight on the back of the turret. I'd like to cover that area in stowage but they're in the way. Are they important? Would the crew remove them?
Thanks.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M-10 turret thingies?
Phil5000
Joined: May 13, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 05:06 PM UTC
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
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Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 05:16 PM UTC
They are tie-down loops.
RickC5
Joined: June 02, 2016
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Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 05:57 PM UTC
Actually, they are folding supports (like tent poles) for a canvas cover that keeps inclement weather out of the open turret. However, there aren't many photos showing the cover deployed.
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
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Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 07:18 PM UTC
As mentioned, they are pivoting poles to support the canvas cover. When not in use they folded flat, and were often covered by whatever stowage the crew piled up. So glue 'em on and then cover 'em with whatever gear you have handy!
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 04:25 AM UTC
Rick and Tom have it exactly correct. I sewed up one for the Patton Museum's M-10 but it was only used once. I have photos here somewhere which I will attempt to find. It was a five or six sided canvas affair with a grommet for each of those folding posts. The support posts would fold upward with a built in stop when they reached the vertical.
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 04:45 AM UTC
(All photos copyright Michael Koenig 2005)
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 04:52 AM UTC
(Academy photos used here for illustration purposes ONLY)
cheswickthecat
Joined: October 13, 2007
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 05:04 AM UTC
Mike, those are some really useful graphics and photos! Thanks for posting. 
Terry
Terry
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 05:30 AM UTC
Thanks Terry. I created all this back in '05 but until now no one has ever asked the question.
Phil5000
Joined: May 13, 2013
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 06:53 AM UTC
Thanks guys, that's really interesting. Never would have guessed.
While I've got you all here, can I ask about the markings? I'm doing the 634th Tank Destroyer Battalion, 1st Infantry Division from the Tamiya kit. Its a very sparse marking scheme and I would like to add some graffiti non official markings from old Sherman kits and such. Could I get away with that and it still be historical valid?
Cheers again.
While I've got you all here, can I ask about the markings? I'm doing the 634th Tank Destroyer Battalion, 1st Infantry Division from the Tamiya kit. Its a very sparse marking scheme and I would like to add some graffiti non official markings from old Sherman kits and such. Could I get away with that and it still be historical valid?
Cheers again.
ropeynz
Joined: April 15, 2011
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 05:44 PM UTC
While it may be a hijack, while the experts are looking in, was there ever spaced armour added to those bolts on the M10 - I am assuming that's what they were for.
Perry
Perry
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 03:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Its a very sparse marking scheme and I would like to add some graffiti non official markings from old Sherman kits and such. Could I get away with that and it still be historical valid?
First off, it's your model so do what you want with it. Enjoy it. Seriously. This is a hobby and do what makes you happiest.
That said, when asking if one can model a non-standard thing and be accurate, the only real way to know is to find a photo of what you want and model that. I can say that naming or graffiti on US tank destroyers was relatively sparse, so it would be unusual. Large amounts of such writing would be even more unusual. That said, look for specific photos online and see if they meet your needs.
HTH
Paul
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 01:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
While it may be a hijack, while the experts are looking in, was there ever spaced armour added to those bolts on the M10 - I am assuming that's what they were for.
Perry
It is my understanding that while those bolt heads were there for the purpose of adding additional spaced armor to the vehicle they were never used. It would be interesting to see a photograph of the prototype up-armor kit installed.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 02:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWhile it may be a hijack, while the experts are looking in, was there ever spaced armour added to those bolts on the M10 - I am assuming that's what they were for.
Perry
It is my understanding that while those bolt heads were there for the purpose of adding additional spaced armor to the vehicle they were never used. It would be interesting to see a photograph of the prototype up-armor kit installed.
From what I have read it was a proposal only and not even a prototype was ever produced? One would think after all this time a photo would have appeared but none has???
As for graffiti, chalk can be pretty ephemeral. It's there one day and gone the next, so there could be a couple of names or even a kilroy.
Honestly though you'd be better off with shipping stenciling. That was often painted on and lasted until the next repaint.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 - 04:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
While it may be a hijack, while the experts are looking in, was there ever spaced armour added to those bolts on the M10 - I am assuming that's what they were for.
Perry
Despite the laborious installation of the mounting points, there's no record of any steel applique ever being issued, and apparently no locally fabricated panels, either. Hundreds of wartime photos would seem to back this up. The bolts were eventually discontinued on the side armor of late production M10's, but the front bolts and bosses remained all through production.
Expedient armor generally consisted of sandbags (except in Third Army, where they were forbidden by Patton).
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 - 07:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks guys, that's really interesting. Never would have guessed.
While I've got you all here, can I ask about the markings? I'm doing the 634th Tank Destroyer Battalion, 1st Infantry Division from the Tamiya kit. Its a very sparse marking scheme and I would like to add some graffiti non official markings from old Sherman kits and such. Could I get away with that and it still be historical valid?
Cheers again.
"Kilroy was Here" accompanied by the large nose and half-round face peering over a straight line is always a perennial favorite. You see it chalked all over in period photos. It wouldn't look out of place.
VR, Russ
j76lr
Joined: September 22, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2017 - 05:14 PM UTC
now i have to build one
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2017 - 06:48 PM UTC
Never say never!
British M10IC near Goch 20 Feb 45
John
British M10IC near Goch 20 Feb 45
John
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 03, 2017 - 01:20 AM UTC
M10 on display at Veckring near Ouvrage Hackenberg (Maginot Line, Moselle, France) :
(from http://ritastatusreport.blogspot.fr/2015/04/buff-my-m10-armor.html )
H.P.
(from http://ritastatusreport.blogspot.fr/2015/04/buff-my-m10-armor.html )
H.P.
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
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Posted: Friday, February 03, 2017 - 02:31 AM UTC
From a book mentioned in Frenchy's link:
(found the pic on eBay, no less!)
John
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
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Posted: Friday, February 03, 2017 - 05:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Never say never!
Well, I can say never. The US never issued any supplemental hull armor for M10s or M36s.
" . . . there's no record of any steel applique ever being issued, and apparently no locally fabricated panels, either."
The later part of this statement has been known to be incorrect for years. There are a number of photos showing TDs with plates held on by the hull bolts. It is hardly an insurmountable task to fabricate flat plates with holes in them.
The drawings H-P referenced are patent drawings for applique armor, which is why the lugs were included in the first place. They are not manufacturing drawings and their existence does not indicate that any parts were ever made. (The Patent Office files are full of ideas that never made it beyond paper.)
KL
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