Hi everyone,
I'm taking the plunge into pigments. I'm starting with chalk because I had a gift certificate for an Arts and Crafts store and I was able to buy a nice box of pastel chalks...along with some fine brushes.
Anyway... I'm a DIY kinda guy. And I'd like to find a pigment fixer that isn't sold in little bottles for high prices.
I've heard of ppl using isopropyl. Somebody else recommended ammonia based glass cleaner. I have both, but nothing really to test them on.
I'm building an armor model and I like to have the running gear all weathered before I add tracks and sponsons. So some parts will see some handling...and I don't want the pastels/pigments coming off too easily.
Thanks for reading!
Gaz
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DIY pigment fixer?
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 11:06 AM UTC
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 01:10 PM UTC
The older I get, the more I tend to think most modelling products have a reason to be specific... Considering the cost of a kit compared with the amount used of such products, and that the result is often noticeably different, I prefer modelling pigments/fixers/thinners etc.
I use AK fixer, at less than $4 the bottle (which can easily last for 15-20 models) I think it is not worth to mess with other products that may even affect the paint underneath.
It dries flat, does not leave marks (unless you put too much in areas without pigment) and keeps pigments in place forever.
I know this is not the answer that you were looking for, but it is my experience, maybe you find it useful anyway
I use AK fixer, at less than $4 the bottle (which can easily last for 15-20 models) I think it is not worth to mess with other products that may even affect the paint underneath.
It dries flat, does not leave marks (unless you put too much in areas without pigment) and keeps pigments in place forever.
I know this is not the answer that you were looking for, but it is my experience, maybe you find it useful anyway
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 1,137 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 01:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The older I get, the more I tend to think most modelling products have a reason to be specific... Considering the cost of a kit compared with the amount used of such products, and that the result is often noticeably different, I prefer modelling pigments/fixers/thinners etc.
I use AK fixer, at less than $4 the bottle (which can easily last for 15-20 models) I think it is not worth to mess with other products that may even affect the paint underneath.
It dries flat, does not leave marks (unless you put too much in areas without pigment) and keeps pigments in place forever.
I know this is not the answer that you were looking for, but it is my experience, maybe you find it useful anyway
I agree with the above... by all means experiment with other mixes, but on a jumker/test/target, not on your latest & greatest...
Art & Craft shop chalks are likely to be very coarse, so I would experiment on something like ground work first.
IPA and ammonia based glass cleaner will (probably) help break the surface tension & move it around, but it won't stick unless fixed.
This Humbrol weathering powder Tutorial will give you a good idea on how to...
wedgetail53
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 658 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 02:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi everyone,
I'm taking the plunge into pigments. I'm starting with chalk because I had a gift certificate for an Arts and Crafts store and I was able to buy a nice box of pastel chalks...along with some fine brushes.
Anyway... I'm a DIY kinda guy. And I'd like to find a pigment fixer that isn't sold in little bottles for high prices.
I've heard of ppl using isopropyl. Somebody else recommended ammonia based glass cleaner. I have both, but nothing really to test them on.
I'm building an armor model and I like to have the running gear all weathered before I add tracks and sponsons. So some parts will see some handling...and I don't want the pastels/pigments coming off too easily.
Thanks for reading!
Gaz
G'day Gaz
Trust me, Windex works a treat. So does white spirit.
Regards
Rob
Pave-Hawk
Joined: May 05, 2006
KitMaker: 900 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 02:52 PM UTC
I personally use Testor Dullcote lacquer to fix pigments, at least for any accumulations in any nooks and crannies.
Once the pigments are in place, a careful dab of very lightly thinned lacquer soaks into them and holds them in place.
And since I am doing it after I have already sprayed the whole model with dullcote, I don't affect the appearance of the model.
I do have mig pigment fixer, and I can't say I was very impressed with it. It did get the pigments to get down into the corners like I wanted, but any touch after it dried removed them. The stuff just smells like pure enamel thinners.
Once the pigments are in place, a careful dab of very lightly thinned lacquer soaks into them and holds them in place.
And since I am doing it after I have already sprayed the whole model with dullcote, I don't affect the appearance of the model.
I do have mig pigment fixer, and I can't say I was very impressed with it. It did get the pigments to get down into the corners like I wanted, but any touch after it dried removed them. The stuff just smells like pure enamel thinners.
alewar
Joined: December 27, 2006
KitMaker: 773 posts
Armorama: 765 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 04:11 PM UTC
Hi, I use pastel chalk and some Ammo's ones.
I fix on place with, our future version of Pledge wax, odorless thinner, and in the last stug with the Ammo filter for three color. Also Matt Testors and We Newton Galeria varnish.
So, I use whatever I have on handle.
Hth
Regards from the south
Álvaro
I fix on place with, our future version of Pledge wax, odorless thinner, and in the last stug with the Ammo filter for three color. Also Matt Testors and We Newton Galeria varnish.
So, I use whatever I have on handle.
Hth
Regards from the south
Álvaro
Namabiiru
Associate Editor#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 04:41 PM UTC
I work with acrylic paints so using Iso Alcohol is a no-go. White spirit works very well. I tried varnish from an airbrush, but it blew most of the pigments off before they stuck. Going to try experimenting with white spirits from a spray bottle (like a perfume bottle) to see how that does.
alewar
Joined: December 27, 2006
KitMaker: 773 posts
Armorama: 765 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 05:32 PM UTC
Mark, I apply the varnish before in place with a brush. With another one I apply the dust from two inches tapping the brush.
Álvaro
Álvaro
CDK
Joined: September 24, 2006
KitMaker: 358 posts
Armorama: 339 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 06:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
And I'd like to find a pigment fixer that isn't sold in little bottles for high prices.
As someone who spent years involved with a certain Spanish paint/weathering company I can tell you this so called 'modeling specific' fixer product is simply heavily thinned enamel matte varnish.
It's that simple.
iowabrit
Joined: November 06, 2007
KitMaker: 585 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 06:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAnd I'd like to find a pigment fixer that isn't sold in little bottles for high prices.
As someone who spent years involved with a certain Spanish paint/weathering company I can tell you this so called 'modeling specific' fixer product is simply heavily thinned enamel matte varnish.
It's that simple.
Thinned with what, white spirit?
Doodeck
Joined: August 15, 2014
KitMaker: 155 posts
Armorama: 154 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 08:09 PM UTC
I had great results with a cheap pigment fixer from local art shop. That stuff looked bit too dense for my liking so I thinned it with alcohol (the stuff smelled like alcohol to start with) approximately 50%. I spray the stuff from the nasal spray bottle. Dries fast and you can further protect the pigments by airbrushing clear coat (it will not blow pigments away, they are fixed).
Works great even for thicker applications like dried mud.
Really cheap solution.
Works great even for thicker applications like dried mud.
Really cheap solution.
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 09:51 PM UTC
Some model products are fairly unique and yet many are things you can brew up yourself. I enjoy fiddling around to make ersatz modeling products. However, most modelers want to build models, NOT set up a chemistry lab and model solutions and pigments. Recently someone disparagingly mentioned about a vendor
No...it gets a good review because it is judged as a good product for modelers, many who do not have the insight, imagination nor resources to replicate the product.
That said, I concur with Carlos,
We've read how ABC's flat finish adversely affects 123's paint; while that may not always be true, I have had enough interactions to keep products in their own family until I have had time to experiment on junker models.
Quoted Text
...just the sort of thing that always gets a good review on this site...
No...it gets a good review because it is judged as a good product for modelers, many who do not have the insight, imagination nor resources to replicate the product.
That said, I concur with Carlos,
Quoted Text
I tend to think most modelling products have a reason to be specific...
We've read how ABC's flat finish adversely affects 123's paint; while that may not always be true, I have had enough interactions to keep products in their own family until I have had time to experiment on junker models.
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Monday, March 13, 2017 - 02:09 PM UTC
Guys,
Thank you for your thoughtful answers! There is certainly some food for thought there.
I really appreciate your efforts to help make me a better model builder.
Gaz
Thank you for your thoughtful answers! There is certainly some food for thought there.
I really appreciate your efforts to help make me a better model builder.
Gaz
Namabiiru
Associate Editor#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 10:42 PM UTC
For anyone interested, last night I did a side-by-side comparison of straight ammonia, Pledge (AKA Future), White Spirit, and thinned acrylic varnish (Vallejo, in this case) as candidate pigment fixers.
Pledge and the acrylic varnish gave the best adhesion and resulted in a natural built up appearance, but left a very distinct demarcation between the area with fixer applied and areas where none was applied, although the Pledge did seem to feather a little better.
Ammonia gave very little adhesion, but left a firmly fixed film of pigment after the excess was brushed away. Possibly good for feathering after varnish or Pledge fixer has set.
White spirit did nothing whatsoever.
I was surprised to find that the Pledge left no shine behind once pigment had been applied. Considering how much cheaper it is than acrylic varnish, I believe that will be my fixer of choice from now on. Just used it for the tracks on a T-34/85, and so far I am quite pleased with the results. The added benefit of using Pledge is that if I don't like the result a quick soak in ammonia will remove it without damaging the underlying paint.
Pledge and the acrylic varnish gave the best adhesion and resulted in a natural built up appearance, but left a very distinct demarcation between the area with fixer applied and areas where none was applied, although the Pledge did seem to feather a little better.
Ammonia gave very little adhesion, but left a firmly fixed film of pigment after the excess was brushed away. Possibly good for feathering after varnish or Pledge fixer has set.
White spirit did nothing whatsoever.
I was surprised to find that the Pledge left no shine behind once pigment had been applied. Considering how much cheaper it is than acrylic varnish, I believe that will be my fixer of choice from now on. Just used it for the tracks on a T-34/85, and so far I am quite pleased with the results. The added benefit of using Pledge is that if I don't like the result a quick soak in ammonia will remove it without damaging the underlying paint.
Oelfass
Joined: February 05, 2008
KitMaker: 45 posts
Armorama: 44 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 11:31 PM UTC
I've had good experiences with Tamiya acrylic thinner, just a light coat sprayed straight from the bottle. It dries very fast, leaves no residue and doesn't change the appearance of the pigments. It's no perfect seal but it protects the pigment layer faily well if you accidentially touch it.
Namabiiru
Associate Editor#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 12:36 AM UTC
I've haven't had luck with spraying varnish or clear coat: if I spray it before adding pigment it dries too fast, and if I spray it after then it blows all the pigment off.
11Bravo_C2
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 475 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 - 05:24 AM UTC
I use two products to fix pigments.
1. White Spirit
2. Thinned Humbrol Enamel Matte Varnish
One will allow you to blend and make changes, the other is permanent. I either load a #2 round brush with the fixer of choice and slightly touch the area where the pigment is, or I drop small amounts of the fixer with a pipette. Both ways take advantage of capillary effect.
1. White Spirit
2. Thinned Humbrol Enamel Matte Varnish
One will allow you to blend and make changes, the other is permanent. I either load a #2 round brush with the fixer of choice and slightly touch the area where the pigment is, or I drop small amounts of the fixer with a pipette. Both ways take advantage of capillary effect.
flippen_waffles
Joined: June 01, 2010
KitMaker: 143 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 11:13 AM UTC
I recently tried a two step method. I used the AK Interactive pigment fixer to get the pigments to stay put. Once that was dry I went over them again with a diluted white glue and water mixture. I soaked them fairly well as I wanted the mixture to really bind everything together. So far, the pigments are holding no problem.
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 01:42 PM UTC
Please remember that white spirit is not the same thing the world over.
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 02:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Please remember that white spirit is not the same thing the world over.
And not only white spirit from what i read here on the forum in US turpentine sound hotter than in other countries
Namabiiru
Associate Editor#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 03:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextPlease remember that white spirit is not the same thing the world over.
And not only white spirit from what i read here on the forum in US turpentine sound hotter than in other countries
That is for sure true. I used to use stuff I got in Japan labeled Distilled Spirits of Turpentine for applying oils, and it worked perfectly. The Turpentine I get here in the US will strip acrylics almost instantly.
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 04:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextPlease remember that white spirit is not the same thing the world over.
And not only white spirit from what i read here on the forum in US turpentine sound hotter than in other countries
That is for sure true. I used to use stuff I got in Japan labeled Distilled Spirits of Turpentine for applying oils, and it worked perfectly. The Turpentine I get here in the US will strip acrylics almost instantly.
I used basically only very cheap turpentine for years in Switzerland without any problems now in Oz I use pure gum turpentine with oils and works perfectly and have also a nice eucalyptus fragrance
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