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M-48A5 gun question
JmeDubya
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California, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 08:17 AM UTC
I'm building a California national guard M48A5 and bought an aftermarket metal barrel, but now that it's next to my M-1 and M-60s it looks super long...

Anyone know off hand how long the M-68 in this beast should be between the mantle and the fume extractor? Damn I'm annoyed.
Vodnik
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Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 10:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm building a California national guard M48A5 and bought an aftermarket metal barrel, but now that it's next to my M-1 and M-60s it looks super long...

Anyone know off hand how long the M-68 in this beast should be between the mantle and the fume extractor? Damn I'm annoyed.

I can't give you an answer, as I don't have access to my references now... But I have a question.
What aftermarket barrel did you buy? I guess it was not dedicated for M48A5 or M60. In most other tanks that use that gun, much more of the barrel is visible - they don't have the accordeon sleeve like Pattons. Also the gun is sometimes mounted further forward in the turret. Most aftermarket barrels are designed for other tanks, not M48A5.
Also note that some aftermarket barrels sold as M68 are in fact British L7 - not suitable for M48A5. The length is the same - the fume extractor is not.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 06:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm building a California national guard M48A5 and bought an aftermarket metal barrel, but now that it's next to my M-1 and M-60s it looks super long...

Anyone know off hand how long the M-68 in this beast should be between the mantle and the fume extractor? Damn I'm annoyed.


The M68 gun does look longer on an M48 or slick M60 since the mantlet was flat rather than angled as on a M60A1 and is totally different from an M1. The exterior front of an M1 turret is spaced out from the interior front where the actual gun mount is. Then the turret front on an M1IP and M1A1 have an extra few inches of armor on front in addition to that.

Also does the gun tube include the accordion sleeve for the mantlet cover? If not the gun tube looks longer without the drooping cover. I have a NJ Guard one in the works.
JmeDubya
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California, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 09:36 PM UTC
Thank you for the replies gentlemen. I'm not sure what company made this barrel, as I bought it from a private seller on eBay. When it arrived it was not in any packaging. It was sold as for the M60 or M48 with a yellow resin mantle piece. I already didn't like the mantle as it didn't have any of the baffles to make it look correct, so I subbed the legend one instead.

Judging just by eye in photos there was almost twice as much length between the accordion dust cover and fume extractor as there should be. I'm not a huge stickler for absolute accuracy but this was very very noticeable, maybe 15-17mm longer than I think it should be so in scale it looks like a super 105. Thinking about it overnight I think maybe it would be closer to right if it didn't have the dust cover or if the dust cover slid over the barrel instead of it gluing to the mantle and then the barrel sitting in it... I'm grasping for some reason, lol. I didn't think it measure it on the table, but once mostly assemble and next to my other 105 tanks it looks more like my M103 than my M60 in proportions.

For a project that I built just so I could put a desert grey MERDC tank on the shelf, this has become a pain in the butt.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - 09:48 PM UTC
The data I have says the barrel length is 5.89 m (19 ft 4 in). It doesn't show where this is measured from though. I would assume that is from the front of the breech (where it meets the barrel) to the tip of the barrel.
Vodnik
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Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 02:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The data I have says the barrel length is 5.89 m (19 ft 4 in). It doesn't show where this is measured from though. I would assume that is from the front of the breech (where it meets the barrel) to the tip of the barrel.

That is correct assumption, but it doesn't help much to determine how much of the barrel should be visible outside of the turret
HeavyArty
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Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 05:35 PM UTC
Using a little extrapolation and measuring from the breech end should get him pretty close to how much should stick out. It isn't that hard to figure it out.
Vodnik
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Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 06:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Using a little extrapolation and measuring from the breech end should get him pretty close to how much should stick out. It isn't that hard to figure it out.

M48 kits do not include any internal gun parts, so no breech to measure from
HeavyArty
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Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 06:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Using a little extrapolation and measuring from the breech end...


Like I said, you have to extrapolate where the breech would begin. Based on most other tank guns, the trunions (pivot points) are right at the end of the breech. Use them and you should be pretty close.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 07:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Using a little extrapolation and measuring from the breech end should get him pretty close to how much should stick out. It isn't that hard to figure it out.

M48 kits do not include any internal gun parts, so no breech to measure from


Time for a dino tanker wild a** guess. The barrel is about four feet into an M48 turret. There is about an extra foot (12") between the front of the turret and the bore evacuator on an M48/M60 as opposed to an M60A1. SO it should look about 30% longer between the mantle and the bore evacuator compared to an M60A1 or slick M1. Depending on one's perception of distance as opposed to estimated measurement that could appear twice as long.

And California guard? DO New Jersey Guard, we also used grey desert but were so much more fun with our nicknames. Where else you gonna see a tank commander with horns velcroed to his CVC? Texas Guard also used Grey Desert. The differences were the bumper codes with the California Guard having more tanks retaining the M1 TC's turret and the NJ Guard having more distressed paint schemes with spot re-painting.

(By the way "19E/dino-tanker wild a** guess" is properly known as range estimation because some tank commanders were clueless with the range finder. I once saw a old timer Vietnam Black Horse M48 TC shoot from the hip from the TC override and hit a target at 500 meters.)
JmeDubya
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California, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 10:23 PM UTC
Thanks for the help guys. Wild*** guessing wins. It looks much better...
DG0542
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Posted: Thursday, March 16, 2017 - 10:39 PM UTC
Steve,

Is it true that some of the Jersey Blue's M48A5 had RPG Scars on the turrets?

Derek
Bravo1102
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Posted: Friday, March 17, 2017 - 01:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Steve,

Is it true that some of the Jersey Blue's M48A5 had RPG Scars on the turrets?

Derek


Yes and glacis too. We also had ones with patched penetrations above the suspension.

One of the pair we had at our armory was from the mild steel prototype series slick M48s. The castings were Prominently marked "nonballistic steel not for combat use" That was NOT the one with the RPG scars.
DG0542
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Posted: Friday, March 17, 2017 - 01:50 AM UTC
They were kept at Ft Drum with the Vermont Tanks too right Steve?
Bravo1102
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Posted: Friday, March 17, 2017 - 01:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

They were kept at Ft Drum with the Vermont Tanks too right Steve?


We actually drew the Vermont tanks at least once. Fort Drum didn't become a Fort until 1988. Before then it was Camp Drum and in the 1950s was Pine Camp back to World War One.
Sabot
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Posted: Friday, March 17, 2017 - 08:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

They were kept at Ft Drum with the Vermont Tanks too right Steve?


We actually drew the Vermont tanks at least once. Fort Drum didn't become a Fort until 1988. Before then it was Camp Drum and in the 1950s was Pine Camp back to World War One.


My first trip to Fort Drum was 1984 with the VTARNG. It was Fort Drum then. There was an active duty engineer battalion stationed there and we assisted them in some range road construction and range berms. Went back there in 1985 twice. Once for my AT and another two weeks with a NJARNG armor battalion. The 10th Mountain had stood up by then.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Friday, March 17, 2017 - 04:31 PM UTC
From the official Ft Drum history:

"In 1974, a permanent garrison was assigned and Camp Drum was renamed Fort Drum. In April 1980, B Company, 76th Engineer Battalion (Combat Heavy) was reassigned from Fort Meade, Maryland...On September 11, 1984, the announcement was made that Fort Drum would be the new home of the 10th Light Infantry Division."
JmeDubya
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Posted: Sunday, March 26, 2017 - 02:51 AM UTC
Thanks for the help guys.

Pretty happy with how this is going so far...

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