Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 03:43 PM UTC
Hello guys,
I bought myself an M923a1 Big Foot truck from Italeri and want to convert it into an M927 XLWB.
I've seen a picture on Militarymashup.com of such a truck with an 20ft container on his back.
My question is how are these containers secured to the truck.
Are the sidepanels from the cargobed removed or is there some kind on construction mounted on the chassis.
For instance a flatrack.
Someone has an idea ?
TIA !!
Gé
Rommel !! You magnificient bastard !!
I've read your book !!!!
G.Patton
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 03:52 PM UTC
I guess this is the picture you're talking about
Full sizeLooks like the side panels have been removed (you can notice the hinges). But according to the TM, the M927 XLWB is fitted with "
permanent steel-welded sides"...
So IMHO, the pictured truck is NOT a M927, but rather a shorter M939 standard cargo truck carrying an ISO container, but NOT a 20' one
Some ISO containers are 10' long...
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 04:13 PM UTC
Hi H.P.
Yes, that's the one !
But this picture is an USMC version and is seems that they have removable sides.
Gé
Rommel !! You magnificient bastard !!
I've read your book !!!!
G.Patton
Removed by original poster on 04/12/17 - 11:46:41 (GMT).
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 04:39 PM UTC
I agree that the truck in the initial pic is not an M927. The bed is way too short. It looks like a standard M939 short bed and that is definitely not a 20' container on it. The biggest tell for me is the spacing along the frame between the fuel tank, rear wheels, mud flaps, etc. Also look at the lack of a long overhang behind the rear wheels.
Additionally, any container is usually strapped or bolted down to the bed. There are no container locking lugs as part of the bed.
Field Artillery --- The KING of BATTLE!!!
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
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RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorStockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 04:47 PM UTC
A close look at "Here's the USMC variant with dropsides"-image (which was removed while I typed this ....) above shows that there are two straps/wires going down from the upper corners of the box/container down to the outside of the load bed at the center of the box/container.
These, or very similar, straps/wires are also included in Italeris kit nr 367:
/ Robin
In memory of Al Superczynski:
"Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to....
and the critics will flame you every time"
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 04:50 PM UTC
I've delated my previous post as I realized the angle of view would not suffice to explain why the pictured truck looks shorter than a M927...
Here's the picture that was included (for Robin
) :
and here's a M927 approximately viewed from the same point of view :
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 04:55 PM UTC
Apparently, the USMC has a new cargo bed that is a little different as it does not have the welded short wall section on the sides at the front. It looks similar to the cargo bed on a Mk23 MTVR.
Here is the USMC version with different, removable side walls.
Standard M939 bed with short, welded wall at front and removable side walls.
Here you can see that when the side walls are removed, the short walls on the front sides remain as they are welded in place and not removable.
Field Artillery --- The KING of BATTLE!!!
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Showcase
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 05:22 PM UTC
Guys,
I still go for my first option being a M927 XLWB.
Look at the number of hinges of the removed sidewalls !!
There are way more than the ones on a standard m923 truck !.
Gé
Rommel !! You magnificient bastard !!
I've read your book !!!!
G.Patton
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 05:28 PM UTC
I agree with Gino about the MTVR-style cargo bed.But the number and spacing of hinges of the truck cargo bed in the original picture match those of the Mk27 LWB truck cargo bed (ten per side).The Mk27 is fitted with a 20' long cargo bed with ISO locks.
Here's a 1/87th scale Mk27 fitted with a 20' ISO container :
Since the beginning I knew there was something wrong with the hinges
In other words, Gé was right from the start !
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 06:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I agree with Gino about the MTVR-style cargo bed.But the number and spacing of hinges of the truck cargo bed in the original picture match those of the Mk27 LWB truck cargo bed (ten per side).The Mk27 is fitted with a 20' long cargo bed with ISO locks.
As I currently work on converting the Trumpeter Mk23 kit to Mk28 (i.e. Mk27 w/winch), I can confirm that the bed in original picture is indeed the Mk27/Mk28 type. There are some minor differences, but the basic configuration is the same.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 06:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
that is definitely not a 20' container on it.
Ermm... Actually it is a standard 20' ISO container.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 07:57 PM UTC
So here it is, it will be an M-927 XLWB with an 20ft container.
Thanks to all you guys !!
Gé
Rommel !! You magnificient bastard !!
I've read your book !!!!
G.Patton
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 12:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
that is definitely not a 20' container on it.
Ermm... Actually it is a standard 20' ISO container.
It still doesn't look like the same container to me. The Mk23 bed is 20', and if it is a Mk23 bed on an M939, then ok, it is a 20' ISO container.
Why would the USMC retro-fit an M939 (an obsolete vehicle - MTVR replaced it) with a Mk 23 bed though? That is the question I have.
Field Artillery --- The KING of BATTLE!!!
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Showcase
Texas, United States
Joined: July 27, 2006
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 103 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 12:34 AM UTC
Nice! A HAWK BCC and ICC right beside it.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 01:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It still doesn't look like the same container to me. The Mk23 bed is 20', and if it is a Mk23 bed on an M939, then ok, it is a 20' ISO container.
Mk27 bed is 20', not Mk23. That is Mk27 bed on M939, not Mk23 bed.
I think Mk27 bed is shorter than M927 bed was, but I'm not sure.
The MTVR in the original photo has 20' Mk27 bed. The MTVR in the photo you posted Gino, has shorter bed, similar to Mk23 one, but not quite the same. I have no idea why Marines decided to upgrade those old trucks. Budget cuts?
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 01:27 AM UTC
Here's the caption of the original picture : "
Lance Corporal Chaney, V. J., with 2D Landing Support Battalion (LSB), attached to the II Marine Expeditionary Force (MEF) participating in Baltic BALTIC CHALLENGE '97 washes down an ISO Container on a M939 5-Ton Cargo Truck for backload onto the Maritime Pre-Positioning Ships Off the Estonia shore." So it must have been taken in
1997, but the first MTVRs were delivered in late
1999...Is it just me or is there some kind of anachronism : how can a truck be upgraded with a feature from another truck that has yet to be put into service ?...
These guys must know
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 01:50 AM UTC
Maybe this 'for sale'-page could provide some additional clues:
http://www.autozin.com/wts-5-ton-military-truck--m923-a1-marine--2993423.html?utm_source=Claz&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=global&trmsource=clazoutfeed Specifically this text: "The bed is an ISO bed so it sits higher and has split dropside which means you can use the entire bed as a flatbed."
This document:
https://info.publicintelligence.net/18000297600.pdf on page 47 says that:
"The MK23/MK25 Cargo variant of the MTVR family will replace the M813A1, M923A1, M923A2, M925,
M925A1, M813 with ISO Bed and the M923 with ISO Bed."
or maybe not ...
on some webpages it says 15' ISO-bed ....
/ Robin
In memory of Al Superczynski:
"Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to....
and the critics will flame you every time"
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 02:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
or maybe not ...
on some webpages it says 15' ISO-bed ....
/ Robin
The one in your photo may indeed be 15' (or 14'?) bed, as it is shorter Mk23 style bed. Count the hinges: it has 8. The truck in the original photo had 10, like 20' Mk27 bed. Also note larger distance between the fuel tank and the wheel in the original photo.
So it looks like the bed upgrade predates the MTVR introduction. Apparently Oshkosh used the already tried ISO bed design for their MTVRs. Interesting
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 02:05 AM UTC
In memory of Al Superczynski:
"Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to....
and the critics will flame you every time"
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 02:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've delated my previous post as I realized the angle of view would not suffice to explain why the pictured truck looks shorter than a M927...
Mk27 bed seems to be shorter than M927 bed was. It does not overhang the rear of the truck so much.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 02:18 AM UTC
I've found it! M927 with 20' ISO bed, as in the original photo:
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 - 02:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mk27 bed seems to be shorter than M927 bed was. It does not overhang the rear of the truck so much.
According to this TM, the M927 has a 244" long cargo bed = 20.3' (overall length = 250" = 20.8')...
http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/TM%2055-2320-272-14-1.pdf I guess eyes can play tricks on us
EDIT : nice find Pawel !
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
