I'm working on the Takom T-54B, doing an Egyptian example in the Six Day War, and I am having a difficult time finding resources.
To start off, I don't know how much to trust the camouflage/paint provided in the kit. The Egypt 1967 markings in the kit are an overall sand-yellow, with no other camouflage. No other markings except for a rectangle with red and blue triangular halves as a unit marking on each side of the turret. I've found maybe 3-4 images on the web of Egyptian T-54's from the conflict, and all have some form of additional camouflage, or are too burnt out to have recognizable features in a b/w photograph.
Furthermore, I am trying to decide on which types of roadwheels and bulldozer attachment points to use. As far as I can tell, most of the Egyptian T-54's were Czech-built, if that helps, but outside of that I don't have any leads. None of the pictures shows the front for the bulldozer points, but most have the starfish wheels while one has spoked.
Any Egyptian armor or T-54 experts around that could help? Pictures would be wonderful.
Thanks
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Six Day War Egyptian T-54B, Takom Kit
MeneMene
Joined: May 20, 2017
KitMaker: 5 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 05:35 AM UTC
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 05:23 PM UTC
Star have a decal set for Egyptian T-54s and 55's, 35-878. Most of those are camouflaged. I can't speak for their accuracy.
Blast Models did a limited edition T-55 Czech rear deck, which may still be available. There is one of these and the Egyptian decals on eBay ending tomorrow (Mon 22nd). I know this cos they're mine!
"Mostly Czech" is probably correct. AFAIK they received Czech T-54A in 61-66 and more Czech and Polish T-54 (A or B?) in 67-72. They received Russian T-55 in 64-66 and used Russian T-54s in 1973. If this is correct - if - Egypt possibly only had T-54A in '67. But, as ever, if you have photo or other evidence of Bs in '67 then go with it. I believe they bought the 2nd T-54 batch, probably including their first Bs, to replace '67 losses and the last to replace '73 losses.
Blast Models did a limited edition T-55 Czech rear deck, which may still be available. There is one of these and the Egyptian decals on eBay ending tomorrow (Mon 22nd). I know this cos they're mine!
"Mostly Czech" is probably correct. AFAIK they received Czech T-54A in 61-66 and more Czech and Polish T-54 (A or B?) in 67-72. They received Russian T-55 in 64-66 and used Russian T-54s in 1973. If this is correct - if - Egypt possibly only had T-54A in '67. But, as ever, if you have photo or other evidence of Bs in '67 then go with it. I believe they bought the 2nd T-54 batch, probably including their first Bs, to replace '67 losses and the last to replace '73 losses.
MeneMene
Joined: May 20, 2017
KitMaker: 5 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 05:56 PM UTC
Thanks for the reply-
That is the main issue, I'm having trouble finding any images. I have two, both of knocked out tanks.
http://i.imgur.com/cuAFyky.jpg
This one looks to be a T-55A, based on the lack of searchlight and coutnerweight gun barrel, but also has the rangefinder thing on the right of the gun, so I'm not sure what to make of it. The only other image I have is a much more comprehensively destroyed one with the turret upside-down on the ground next to it, so I can't really tell much from it.
So you think it would be a good assumption that they were not using the T-54B in 1967, and that I should move to the Yom Kippur war instead?
That is the main issue, I'm having trouble finding any images. I have two, both of knocked out tanks.
http://i.imgur.com/cuAFyky.jpg
This one looks to be a T-55A, based on the lack of searchlight and coutnerweight gun barrel, but also has the rangefinder thing on the right of the gun, so I'm not sure what to make of it. The only other image I have is a much more comprehensively destroyed one with the turret upside-down on the ground next to it, so I can't really tell much from it.
So you think it would be a good assumption that they were not using the T-54B in 1967, and that I should move to the Yom Kippur war instead?
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 08:01 PM UTC
I assume you meant that the tank in your pic looks like a T-54A, not a T-55.
I could not find any actual photos of T-54B's in Egypt Army from 1967, just this profile drawing in Tanks Encyclopedia, but could not confirm either their source.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/T-54/Egyptian_T-54B_1967.png
I could not find any actual photos of T-54B's in Egypt Army from 1967, just this profile drawing in Tanks Encyclopedia, but could not confirm either their source.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/T-54/Egyptian_T-54B_1967.png
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 08:06 PM UTC
If this works, a well known picture of a T-54A in Sinai after the '67 war. The tank in the back appears to have the fume extractor installed. The color is plain sand yellow.
To make this tank you would need to make some changes to the turret. Or just build a T-54B tank from '73.
To make this tank you would need to make some changes to the turret. Or just build a T-54B tank from '73.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 08:15 PM UTC
I finally got a picture to upload from my gallery.
This type of T-54's became the first Tiran's.
This type of T-54's became the first Tiran's.
MeneMene
Joined: May 20, 2017
KitMaker: 5 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 09:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If this works, a well known picture of a T-54A in Sinai after the '67 war. The tank in the back appears to have the fume extractor installed. The color is plain sand yellow.
......
To make this tank you would need to make some changes to the turret. Or just build a T-54B tank from '73.
Thanks,
So just to be clarify (I am largely ignorant on the subject and want to make sure I have it right, the example in the back of your image with the fume extractor is definitely not a T-54B? Or could it be?
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 10:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIf this works, a well known picture of a T-54A in Sinai after the '67 war. The tank in the back appears to have the fume extractor installed. The color is plain sand yellow.
......
To make this tank you would need to make some changes to the turret. Or just build a T-54B tank from '73.
Thanks,
So just to be clarify (I am largely ignorant on the subject and want to make sure I have it right, the example in the back of your image with the fume extractor is definitely not a T-54B? Or could it be?
Both T-54's are A's. The smaller periscope in front of the commanders cupola is the best identifying feature. What looks liked a fume extractor could be an optical illusion from the shadows and the loaders cupola behind the gun tube.
Check out the how to build a T54 thread in the Russo-Soviet forums:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/167915&page=1
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 01:36 AM UTC
The sources I have looked at while researching T-54 and T-55 for myself suggest that the initial Egyptian order was all T-54A, right at the end of Czech production which ended in '66.
AFAIK the T-54B was a Russian-only production variant built only in '57-58 prior to the start of T-55 production in '58, so not widespread. All T-54B had the bore evacuator, but then so did many (majority?) of T-54A. If this information is correct, Egypt could not have received T-54B until their '67-72 deliveries - a mixed bag of used Russian, Polish and Czech T-54s alongside new-build T-55s. I believe those orders and deliveries were to replace '67 losses, as well as increasing the Egyptian tank force. I'm not saying they definitely did get any T-54B after '67, just that I do not believe they could possibly have had them prior to the '67 conflict.
It is plausible that they didn't get any Bs until after 1973 when they got a whole mixed bunch of ex-Russian T-54s. As the T-54B was a Russian-only model built in relatively small numbers this scenario is perhaps more/most likely. It is believed that the Syrians even got some T-54-2s in their post-'73 deliveries, which would indicate that Russia really was clearing house of its old kit at that time.
Any T-54B would by definition have the Russian engine deck as neither Poland nor Czechoslovakia built any.
AFAIK the T-54B was a Russian-only production variant built only in '57-58 prior to the start of T-55 production in '58, so not widespread. All T-54B had the bore evacuator, but then so did many (majority?) of T-54A. If this information is correct, Egypt could not have received T-54B until their '67-72 deliveries - a mixed bag of used Russian, Polish and Czech T-54s alongside new-build T-55s. I believe those orders and deliveries were to replace '67 losses, as well as increasing the Egyptian tank force. I'm not saying they definitely did get any T-54B after '67, just that I do not believe they could possibly have had them prior to the '67 conflict.
It is plausible that they didn't get any Bs until after 1973 when they got a whole mixed bunch of ex-Russian T-54s. As the T-54B was a Russian-only model built in relatively small numbers this scenario is perhaps more/most likely. It is believed that the Syrians even got some T-54-2s in their post-'73 deliveries, which would indicate that Russia really was clearing house of its old kit at that time.
Any T-54B would by definition have the Russian engine deck as neither Poland nor Czechoslovakia built any.
MeneMene
Joined: May 20, 2017
KitMaker: 5 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 02:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm not saying they definitely did get any T-54B after '67, just that I do not believe they could possibly have had them prior to the '67 conflict.
It is plausible that they didn't get any Bs until after 1973 when they got a whole mixed bunch of ex-Russian T-54s.
Thanks- so if I'm following, it's also plausible to have a Egyptian T-54B in the 1973 Yom Kippur War out of the box?
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 02:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The sources I have looked at while researching T-54 and T-55 for myself suggest that the initial Egyptian order was all T-54A, right at the end of Czech production which ended in '66.
AFAIK the T-54B was a Russian-only production variant built only in '57-58 prior to the start of T-55 production in '58, so not widespread. All T-54B had the bore evacuator, but then so did many (majority?) of T-54A. If this information is correct, Egypt could not have received T-54B until their '67-72 deliveries - a mixed bag of used Russian, Polish and Czech T-54s alongside new-build T-55s. I believe those orders and deliveries were to replace '67 losses, as well as increasing the Egyptian tank force. I'm not saying they definitely did get any T-54B after '67, just that I do not believe they could possibly have had them prior to the '67 conflict.
It is plausible that they didn't get any Bs until after 1973 when they got a whole mixed bunch of ex-Russian T-54s. As the T-54B was a Russian-only model built in relatively small numbers this scenario is perhaps more/most likely. It is believed that the Syrians even got some T-54-2s in their post-'73 deliveries, which would indicate that Russia really was clearing house of its old kit at that time.
Any T-54B would by definition have the Russian engine deck as neither Poland nor Czechoslovakia built any.
Thanks for the information. There are T-54B's seen in Egypt, but most are in recent pictures.
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 07:59 AM UTC
[/quote]Thanks- so if I'm following, it's also plausible to have a Egyptian T-54B in the 1973 Yom Kippur War out of the box?[/quote]
I think it is possible, but probably unlikely, that Egypt had T-54B in time for the '73 shooting match. I don't see that Russia would have handed over T-54Bs and kept As for itself. I think it is more likely that they got them after '73 when the Russians were essentially clearing out of T-54s in favour of T-55s and T-62s.
I think it is possible, but probably unlikely, that Egypt had T-54B in time for the '73 shooting match. I don't see that Russia would have handed over T-54Bs and kept As for itself. I think it is more likely that they got them after '73 when the Russians were essentially clearing out of T-54s in favour of T-55s and T-62s.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 08:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks- so if I'm following, it's also plausible to have a Egyptian T-54B in the 1973 Yom Kippur War out of the box?[/quote]I think it is possible, but probably unlikely, that Egypt had T-54B in time for the '73 shooting match. I don't see that Russia would have handed over T-54Bs and kept As for itself. I think it is more likely that they got them after '73 when the Russians were essentially clearing out of T-54s in favour of T-55s and T-62s.[/quote]
I can agree with your reasoning. However the Soviets did send new T-55 and T-62's to be used in '73. Perhaps the losses in '73 prompted the Soviets to replace those losses with second hand machines, along with newer tanks.
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 02:44 AM UTC
The Star Decal set for Egyptian tanks looks pretty cool, what would be the best kit for the tanks listed (T-54A, T-55A, T-62 Model 1962)?
MeneMene
Joined: May 20, 2017
KitMaker: 5 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 07:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think it is possible, but probably unlikely, that Egypt had T-54B in time for the '73 shooting match.
This blurry image from pinterest claims it's a T-54, and with the large periscope would be a T-54B. But I can't see the ventilation dome or the AA gun, so is it a T-55 instead?
Armorsmith
Joined: April 09, 2015
KitMaker: 1,063 posts
Armorama: 1,000 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 07:27 AM UTC
For the T-55A I really like the Tamiya kit although it does need some work. The grooves in the tyres need to be filled to make ribs. I used stretched sprue but AM is available. Of course screens and a metal barrel. The kit tracks are serviceable but again AM is available. Lastly, the fender tank plumbing needs to be added. The Takom kit is also nice eliminating some of the work of the Tamiya kit, i.e. indy tracks, screens, plumbing, but honestly I enjoyed the Tamiya kit much more. I'm no expert but if I remember correctly the Tamiya kit can only be built as a Russian example despite decals to the contrary.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 08:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI think it is possible, but probably unlikely, that Egypt had T-54B in time for the '73 shooting match.
This blurry image from pinterest claims it's a T-54, and with the large periscope would be a T-54B. But I can't see the ventilation dome or the AA gun, so is it a T-55 instead?
The round loaders hatch, no loaders MG mount, and no ventilator suggests T-55.
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 - 05:22 AM UTC
Can't tell if this is 73 or 67. T55 suggests 73 if those are Israeli personnel.
ReluctantRenegade
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 - 06:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Can't tell if this is 73 or 67. T55 suggests 73 if those are Israeli personnel.
I would say they're Egyptians in '73.
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