Good morning guys,
Going to start work on a new model and was wondering how much rust actually was on the mufflers and exhaust areas of ww2 german tanks. I see some people going super heavy on it and just wasn't sure.
thanks for the help
steve
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Rust on German WW2 exhausts
stephenmodel
Joined: June 19, 2015
KitMaker: 74 posts
Armorama: 70 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 06:30 PM UTC
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 06:41 PM UTC
It depends on the tank your depicting,if it's a tired old veteran,then perhaps more rust and damage on the pipes.If it's relatively fresh tank,then perhaps just a light sheen of rust.
Also Google tank exhaust pics for some ideas
Also Google tank exhaust pics for some ideas
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 06:46 PM UTC
Ha ha the old rusty muff,first port of call would be to have a look at car exhausts:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rusty+muffler&hl=en&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6l66Rur3UAhUDL8AKHXtDCPAQ_AUIBygC&biw=1280&bih=643
Some are rusty some more than others.
I tend to go in between not too rusty but enough to make a difference and have some sort of rust tone.plus you have to think how long your tank has been in the field,is it nearly new or has it seen some action and also what time of year the vehicle is in.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rusty+muffler&hl=en&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6l66Rur3UAhUDL8AKHXtDCPAQ_AUIBygC&biw=1280&bih=643
Some are rusty some more than others.
I tend to go in between not too rusty but enough to make a difference and have some sort of rust tone.plus you have to think how long your tank has been in the field,is it nearly new or has it seen some action and also what time of year the vehicle is in.
All_You_Can_Kit
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
Armorama: 527 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 06:55 PM UTC
For active tanks, I am using major proportion of burnt umber & burnt sienna. The remaining proportion may be yellow ochre, titanium white, etc. until reaching your level of eye-satisfaction to get closer with the reference that you use. CMIIW and hope it helps mate..
Warm regards from Indonesia,
Garry
Warm regards from Indonesia,
Garry
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 06:58 PM UTC
Here's an example (Panzer IV Ausf G):
H.P.
H.P.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 07:00 PM UTC
Im also thinking that the metal used for WWII mufflers probably wasnt as good as whats used on modern exhausts
stephenmodel
Joined: June 19, 2015
KitMaker: 74 posts
Armorama: 70 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 07:22 PM UTC
thanks for the help. I did google tank exhaust but found lots of BW images and couldnt really tell if it was dirt or rust. I might be doing a kursk era tank that isnt a vet but isnt a baby so i think i will era on light to medium rusting.
Thanks again guys
Thanks again guys
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 07:49 PM UTC
I'm inclined to say at the minimum the exhaust pipes and mufflers should be evenly coated with fresh rust even for a fairly new tank. If you look at the meticulously cared for "runners" at Saumur and Bovington, they spend several hours being run in a garage and then a few hours outside on a sunny day and they are fully patina'd the following day.
stephenmodel
Joined: June 19, 2015
KitMaker: 74 posts
Armorama: 70 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 08:28 PM UTC
oh thanks for those pictures. they are great. I see where you are coming from.
- steve
- steve
johhar
Joined: September 22, 2008
KitMaker: 476 posts
Armorama: 447 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 10:15 PM UTC
Is that a little exhaust to the left of the main exhaust on a Panzer IV. It looks like it has fresh paint. Should it be rusted?
johhar
Joined: September 22, 2008
KitMaker: 476 posts
Armorama: 447 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 10:15 PM UTC
Is it the turret rotation engine exhaust or am I wrong here?
Removed by original poster on 06/14/17 - 17:33:40 (GMT).
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 10:51 PM UTC
That might not run long or hot enough to do much to the paint.
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 11:05 PM UTC
As it's a restoration, I'd imagine that it is highly likely that either the traverse motor doesn't function or is absent. After all, the need for it is zero on a museum exhibit (if you want to traverse the turret, use the handwheel - the slower speed will not be fatal).
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 12:23 AM UTC
It appears that the pictured Pz IV exhaust muffler is not original...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1438481670/last-1439013602/View+Thread
Here's a period picture :
H.P.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1438481670/last-1439013602/View+Thread
Here's a period picture :
H.P.
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 12:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It appears that the pictured Pz IV exhaust muffler is not original...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1438481670/last-1439013602/View+Thread
H.P.
That link led me to a bunch of useful photos following the links there...
...plus a link that actually led me back to another forum I belong to!
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 12:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That link led me to a bunch of useful photos following the links there...
...plus a link that actually led me back to another forum I belong to!
It's a small world after all
. If you're into Pz IV's "Lang", just check out these period pics :https://www.flickr.com/photos/deckarudo/albums/72157623974334796/with/7201984102/
This guy's other albums are worth a look as well !
H.P.
Anmoga
Joined: November 18, 2004
KitMaker: 456 posts
Armorama: 333 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 01:19 AM UTC
Hi Stephen,
You can have a look at here to see a few WWII color photos were you can see the exhausts.
I know I have some more but have to find them. As soon as I find them will include them in my photobucket.
Best regards,
Angel
You can have a look at here to see a few WWII color photos were you can see the exhausts.
I know I have some more but have to find them. As soon as I find them will include them in my photobucket.
Best regards,
Angel
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 02:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThat link led me to a bunch of useful photos following the links there...
...plus a link that actually led me back to another forum I belong to!
It's a small world after all
https://www.flickr.com/photos/deckarudo/albums/72157623974334796/with/7201984102/
This guy's other albums are worth a look as well !
H.P.
Wonderful! Thank you!
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 02:54 AM UTC
Preserved vehicles have their use for some references, but I do not think they are a good choice in this case, as the vehicles are nowadays 70 years old -quite different from the time they were in service.
In my opinion they would be rusted soon, but not to the extent many modellers do, with the texture of an abandoned-30-years-old car
In my opinion they would be rusted soon, but not to the extent many modellers do, with the texture of an abandoned-30-years-old car
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 03:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Preserved vehicles have their use for some references, but I do not think they are a good choice in this case, as the vehicles are nowadays 70 years old -quite different from the time they were in service.
In my opinion they would be rusted soon, but not to the extent many modellers do, with the texture of an abandoned-30-years-old car
I think sometimes people mistakenly got their impressions of rust from pictures of the vehicles in the salvage yards after the war. I don't know how else to explain why some models look like they've been sitting in the rain for decades.
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 03:54 PM UTC
The rusting is actually more due to the heat of the exhaust burning off the paint, in the same way that a burnt out vehicle always appears rusty, it's a chemical reaction from the combustion. I would think that a surface rust is the best way forward in most cases, unless depicting a well worn veteran. Alternatively on a recent issue vehicle a blue-grey striped effect may look a bit different; this being the first stage of the chemical reaction. Most modern car exhausts are made of stainless steel, so they won't help much...
I note in some of the photos that the tank has been repainted winter white, or smeared with mud. This would probably also be slopped over the exhaust stack too, so would disguise its true state.
I note in some of the photos that the tank has been repainted winter white, or smeared with mud. This would probably also be slopped over the exhaust stack too, so would disguise its true state.
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