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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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Syrian T-62 Engine covers
BornToDig
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Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 07:53 AM UTC
Hello all,

I'm building a Syrian version of the T-62 (1972 model), and I'm curious if the hinged plates over the engine grilles would have been removed in warmer climates?
Armorsmith
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Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 08:19 AM UTC
Unless I am mistaken the grills are only covered for deep fording. As they cover the intake vents they must be left open during normal operation of the vehicle. The covers are part of the waterproofing package. If I am wrong I am sure others will correct me.
hugohuertas
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Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 07:53 PM UTC
Why don't you try the search option here in Armorama, or "googleing" it?
A simple search brings you some useful pictures, like this
from an old Armorama post:
https://milinme.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/syrre-11456.jpg

This one from the web:
http://pic.baxue.me/uploads/allimg/120526/0210224261-7.jpg

Or these ones from Primeportal.net:
http://data4.primeportal.net/tanks/carl_dennis/t-62_model_1972/images/t-62_model_1972_28_of_32.jpg
http://data4.primeportal.net/tanks/carl_dennis/t-62_model_1972/images/t-62_model_1972_07_of_32.jpg

As you can see, in all of them the engine-cover plate is there.
Even the current SAA T-62's seem to keep the cover:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDshfH8UsAA15kW.jpg
https://cdn.almasdarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/17201159_1866635790292421_4053558666750121967_n.jpg
https://cdnmundo2.img.sputniknews.com/images/106958/06/1069580679.jpg

This doesn't mean that it's impossible to find a Syrian T-62 without the cover, but it does not seem to be the common practice.
By the way, a few model 1962 could still be found recently in action.
RLlockie
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Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 12:30 AM UTC
Do you mean over the radiators or the air outlet grilles at the rear? In both cases I believe they were left in place from the standard configuration. There is water in Syria and they still had the snorkels fitted so I'd model them with the wading gear. The opened flaps over the radiators are covered by a pressed metal plate which has a number of cutouts to accommodate the hinges by the way. Having said that, the absence of those is the least of the issues with Trumpeter's kit....
BornToDig
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 04:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Why don't you try the search option here in Armorama, or "googleing" it?


I actually did google first, but the terms I used did not yield useful photos. So thanks for sharing what you found.

I understand that "googling it" is one way to get an answer, but at the same time, the whole point of a forum is to discuss things. And one way to generate a discussion is to ask a question.

And behold, a discussion is being had!
BornToDig
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 04:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Do you mean over the radiators or the air outlet grilles at the rear? In both cases I believe they were left in place from the standard configuration. There is water in Syria and they still had the snorkels fitted so I'd model them with the wading gear. The opened flaps over the radiators are covered by a pressed metal plate which has a number of cutouts to accommodate the hinges by the way. Having said that, the absence of those is the least of the issues with Trumpeter's kit....


I'm specifically referring to the radiator covers.

It is too bad that Trumpeter didn't mold the inner surfaces of these radiator flaps, as it would be nice to model the tank with them sitting opened up, as per the last photo linked by Hugo.
hugohuertas
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 06:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Why don't you try the search option here in Armorama, or "googleing" it?


I actually did google first, but the terms I used did not yield useful photos. So thanks for sharing what you found.

I understand that "googling it" is one way to get an answer, but at the same time, the whole point of a forum is to discuss things. And one way to generate a discussion is to ask a question.

And behold, a discussion is being had!


No arguing here.
I just pointed out that both "search" tools are actually useful, and not always used -this also happens in my work, and I also pontificate there about the "convenience" of using them and ask me just as a last option, LOL -.

In fact I found most of the photos I "linked" by doing a quick Google search...
hugohuertas
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 07:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The opened flaps over the radiators are covered by a pressed metal plate which has a number of cutouts to accommodate the hinges by the way. Having said that, the absence of those is the least of the issues with Trumpeter's kit....


I'm specifically referring to the radiator covers.

It is too bad that Trumpeter didn't mold the inner surfaces of these radiator flaps, as it would be nice to model the tank with them sitting opened up, as per the last photo linked by Hugo.


I believe that they can be scratch built with some work, either with aluminium or brass foil.
Again, some search for detailed pictures will be necessary.
These can be nice projects:
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3712/32403156843_e58a94a18d_b.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_yCUVuXUAAC4pv.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChkZyiKVAAEZA8x.jpg:large

https://sites.wrk.ru/sites/ua/or/org/alternathistory/files/languages/vpk6j7bwcbq39vstb45p_lsbrc_1_rsbrc_.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5615/31152774221_c4e5b34688.jpg

BornToDig
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 05:20 PM UTC
Interesting. In most of those photos the grills do not have the covers
andymacrae
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 06:21 PM UTC

FWIW Trumpeter 01553 T-62 BDD Mod.1984 (Mod.1962 modification) and 01554 Russian T-62 BDD Mod.1984 (Mod.1972 modification) includes these covers.
hugohuertas
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 07:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Interesting. In most of those photos the grills do not have the covers



That's why one should never say never...
BornToDig
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 08:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text


FWIW Trumpeter 01553 T-62 BDD Mod.1984 (Mod.1962 modification) and 01554 Russian T-62 BDD Mod.1984 (Mod.1972 modification) includes these covers.



Well, right. And my initial question was asking whether they should be left on or off the model.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 08:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


FWIW Trumpeter 01553 T-62 BDD Mod.1984 (Mod.1962 modification) and 01554 Russian T-62 BDD Mod.1984 (Mod.1972 modification) includes these covers.



Well, right. And my initial question was asking whether they should be left on or off the model.


I will reiterate what I posted earlier and what no one else who has posted so far has contradicted: that under normal operating conditions the screen covers are not fitted as they are part of the deep fording and waterproofing equipment.
marcb
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 08:47 PM UTC
The old Tamiya T-62 book features a drawing showing these covers folding away under the large rectangular cover.
seanmcandrews
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 09:10 PM UTC
As Marc says, the covers fold away under the larger ribbed cover when not in use. This drawing https://www.dishmodels.ru/wshow.htm?mode=P&vmode=T&p=1762&id=68067&tp=w shows all covers closed for fording with air being drawn in by the snorkle. Once the water obstacle is crossed a cam plate on the lower edge of the turret activates the lever #14 and unlatches all those covers, which pop open as the hinges are spring loaded. Same setup as used on the T-72.

Sean
Johnathan123
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Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 09:57 PM UTC
Thank you all for this discussion and pictures! I am in the process of building (3) Trumpeter T-62's and all of them will be from the Syrian civil war. I have gone through hundreds of pictures and it seems that most have them off, but you would not be wrong to leave them on. You will also notice that on a few pictures even the engine deck is up during combat. This can bee seen also on the T-55. I think a lot of it has to do with the engines overheating and also what stocks they got from the Russians. They are right never say never on Syrian armor (early model tanks, late models, experimental ect.)
BornToDig
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Posted: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 08:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I will reiterate what I posted earlier and what no one else who has posted so far has contradicted: that under normal operating conditions the screen covers are not fitted as they are part of the deep fording and waterproofing equipment.



I've been paying attention, and agree with your first reply. Given what the others have just pointed out, now there is evidence for your hypothesis.


Glad I didn't just Google this
RLlockie
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Posted: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 10:18 AM UTC
What was unclear from the original post was the time period to which the poster was referring. I have no interest in the current civil war in Syria and assumed that he meant the 'as delivered' configuration which was seen in 1973. Those wagons were unmodified based on pictures I have seen, beyond a hasty addition of camouflage paint and some with sandbags over the trackguard fuel tanks. After 40 years of service, it's certainly not impossible for some parts which may not have been used and which would be in the way when accessing the engine to have been removed.
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