The famous Arab Panzer IV which fought in the Six-Day War has been finally announced by Dragon, as it was one of the most known vehicles
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Dragon: Arab Panzer IV
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 06:57 PM UTC
The famous Arab Panzer IV which fought in the Six-Day War has been finally announced by Dragon, as it was one of the most known vehicles
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 07:29 PM UTC
I'll wait for the Arab Maus.
Chris_VMS
Joined: July 23, 2016
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 18 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 07:30 PM UTC
Wow! A panzer outfitted with a DSHK, can one ask for more?
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 07:32 PM UTC
Now thats different
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:00 PM UTC
For my eye-ball MkI it seems that for the base kit they've got everything right this time.
But given the different versions and sources of the Pz. IV's the Syrians received, it will be a must to check reference pictures of the originals to be sure about the actual configuration of the one you want to model.
For example, I found that this particular tank did not carry the additional protection track in the hull's front, nor another tools usually seen on German vehicles.
Perhaps when the vehicles were on parade this stuff was already placed.
Take a look at this picture, to get an idea -the Drushka and its supports are also removed, perhaps taken by someone as a souvenir-:
But given the different versions and sources of the Pz. IV's the Syrians received, it will be a must to check reference pictures of the originals to be sure about the actual configuration of the one you want to model.
For example, I found that this particular tank did not carry the additional protection track in the hull's front, nor another tools usually seen on German vehicles.
Perhaps when the vehicles were on parade this stuff was already placed.
Take a look at this picture, to get an idea -the Drushka and its supports are also removed, perhaps taken by someone as a souvenir-:
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:05 PM UTC
The Arabs used some Panthers, too, didn't they? I suppose we'll see that next!
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:10 PM UTC
Another wrecked tank:
One captured and restored tank arriving to the tank museum in Israel -with “mem mem 80” marking in Hebrew letters (I have no idea of the meaning)-:
One captured and restored tank arriving to the tank museum in Israel -with “mem mem 80” marking in Hebrew letters (I have no idea of the meaning)-:
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The Arabs used some Panthers, too, didn't they? I suppose we'll see that next!
I believe it is just an "urban-myth"...
AFAIK the only surviving and fully functional Panthers remained in French Army hands.
I may stand corrected, anyway.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe Arabs used some Panthers, too, didn't they? I suppose we'll see that next!
I believe it is just an "urban-myth"...
AFAIK the only surviving and fully functional Panthers remained in French Army hands.
I may stand corrected, anyway.
I think so, too. Just Googled it and couldn't find any evidence or reference to Syrian Panthers.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextThe Arabs used some Panthers, too, didn't they? I suppose we'll see that next!
I believe it is just an "urban-myth"...
AFAIK the only surviving and fully functional Panthers remained in French Army hands.
I may stand corrected, anyway.
I think so, too. Just Googled it and couldn't find any evidence or reference to Syrian Panthers.
I would love to find any evidence, but I gave up some time ago...
All the references I could find showed the various Pz.IV's -the "Spanish" ones being the most pristine-, a few Jgdpz. IV's (half a dozen?), and some Stug. III's and Hummel's.
TonyE78
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 96 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:56 PM UTC
My only "complaint" is that it would have been nice if Dragon had included an option to make the Pz-IV (and/or the Stug) with the italian 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT machine gun instead of the Dshk that some of these vehicles had, but perhaps some aftermarket guys will do this. 
ReluctantRenegade
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 11:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The Arabs used some Panthers, too, didn't they? I suppose we'll see that next!
I'm not sure what you meant by "Arabs", but the Syrians never operated any Panthers. As far as I'm concerned, none of the Arab armies did. Nevertheless, here's a in-depth article of ex-Wehrmacht hardware that the Syrians did operate: https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/panzers-in-the-golan-heights/
ReluctantRenegade
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 11:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Another wrecked tank:
One captured and restored tank arriving to the tank museum in Israel -with “mem mem 80” marking in Hebrew letters (I have no idea of the meaning)-:
"Mem" is the Hebrew equivalent of the Latin letter "M". Based on the fact that some of the captured tanks were used for Israeli ammunition performance evaluation after the war, I would say '80 Mem Mem' indicates the front armor thickness (80mm).
Removed by original poster on 06/24/17 - 20:11:28 (GMT).
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 02:49 AM UTC
some of these had a "J" hull and a "D" turret. http://ftr-wot.blogspot.com/2013/03/panzer-iv-in-czechoslovak-service.html
JSSVIII
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 02:55 AM UTC
I really hope Dragon gets their act together on this one and gets the details right! It has been my impression that their PZ IV series is among the best of the subject.
Tanksami
Joined: August 06, 2011
KitMaker: 1,314 posts
Armorama: 1,217 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 03:02 AM UTC
Hi All,
Tony re your point about the 12.7mm Safat, I am at the beginning of trying to build a early stug g with this on it & the best I source I have come up with so far is to scratch build it.
Hath
Mike
Tony re your point about the 12.7mm Safat, I am at the beginning of trying to build a early stug g with this on it & the best I source I have come up with so far is to scratch build it.
Hath
Mike
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 04:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm not sure what you meant by "Arabs", ...
The OP is "Arab Panzer lV". I'm just following suit in the general description.
Taeuss
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 3,778 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 06:30 AM UTC
There were no Syrian Panthers! The Europeans held on to any found running after the war and the Soviets wouldn't bother sending that stuff when they could sent client states newer, more effective tanks like the T-55. As well: Munster Panzer Museum has a Panther runner that they bring out regularly, so not only the French still have runners.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 11:26 AM UTC
Considering that the Syrian Pzkpfw IV were assembled from pieces of surviving tanks, where you even end up with the Ausf D/H hybrid, getting it right will be hunting down pictures of the tank you want to build and doing it justice. There were late three roller J, four roller J and H as well as the D/H hybrid. There was no one uniform Pzkpfw IV variant configuration. Only the add-ons from the Syrians was somewhat uniform.
Look at the variety of Shermans that the M50 conversion was done to. The base vehicles were from all over the M4 tank spectrum. The same was true with the Pzkpfw IV. (Or the Bulgarian and French use of Panthers or any number of armies with stocks of T-34/85, or Brazilian M3 Lees.)
Look at the variety of Shermans that the M50 conversion was done to. The base vehicles were from all over the M4 tank spectrum. The same was true with the Pzkpfw IV. (Or the Bulgarian and French use of Panthers or any number of armies with stocks of T-34/85, or Brazilian M3 Lees.)
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 06:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Considering that the Syrian Pzkpfw IV were assembled from pieces of surviving tanks, where you even end up with the Ausf D/H hybrid, getting it right will be hunting down pictures of the tank you want to build and doing it justice. There were late three roller J, four roller J and H as well as the D/H hybrid. There was no one uniform Pzkpfw IV variant configuration. Only the add-ons from the Syrians was somewhat uniform.
True, but it depends on a given vehicle and a specific time interval.
Just to give an example, the Pz IV H's sent from Spain were all of the same type/model/year of production, and had never seen combat action before so they were in almost "pristine" condition.
From the pics shown, I assume that Dragon's kit intends to depict a particular vehicle on parade.
As always, modelers should go their way from there, looking for photos and info to add the mods needed for the model they want to represent. If I decide to get this kit, I would go for a wrecked one.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 07:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
As well: Munster Panzer Museum has a Panther runner that they bring out regularly, so not only the French still have runners.
To be more clear, I should have said "IMMEDIATELY AFTER WW2 the only surviving AND FULLY FUNCTIONAL Panthers remained in French Army hands."
I was not referring to museum units, but to operational tanks. The ones that could be supposedly sold to Syrian army.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 07:39 PM UTC
What eventually happened to the French Panthers? Were they just scrapped with no regard to future generations who would just love to have running Panthers? 
TonyE78
Joined: October 28, 2012
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 96 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 08:59 PM UTC
Many of them still exist in museums.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 10:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Many of them still exist in museums.
Musée des Blindés at Saumur, for example
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