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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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Tamiya XF-2 White.
Sergas
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: April 13, 2017
KitMaker: 51 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 12:02 AM UTC
Hello fellow Modelers.

I don`t know what it is. But for some reason i always have problems with Tamiya XF-2. At least when i use it in my Airbrush, for my shadow coat for example. It "spits" the paint rather then spraying it. And no matter what i do, it still wont spray smoothly.
I always fill up Tamiya paints almost to the top of the bottle with Lacquer Thinner. That works with every single Tamiya color i m using, just not with XF-2! I tried it thinner, or mixing it for a longer period of time, bought a brand new bottle and used eyedroppers to measure the amount of Color and Thinner! But it still spits the paint!
So far i only used White for the Black&White technique, so i had a coat of Color over top. But it still bothers me.

Do you guys experienced similar problems with that specific color?? And do you have a solution ??

cheers
David
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 12:23 AM UTC
White seems to be an issue for a number of people. I think it just has very dense pigment in it.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 12:59 AM UTC
I've never had a problem with it, but I only use Tamiya thinner with Tamiya paints. By long and painful experience, I've found the best thinners to use are usually proprietary thinners. I can sometimes use lacquer thinner with Model Master Enamels, but primarily I only use lacquer thinner for cleaning my airbrush. The formulation for Tamiya is not a true lacquer base-- it's an acrylic lacquer. I know lacquer thinner will thin it, but so does IPA and Mr. Hobby's line of thinners and reducers, which are similar to lacquer thinner but not the same. Try thinning your Tamiya white with Tamiya thinner and see if that helps.
VR, Russ

P.S.-- I just re-read your post, and I think you said you fill the Tamiya bottle to the top with lacquer thinner to mix. You should never add thinner to the pigment in the bottle, as that dilutes and affects the formulation and chemistry of the pigment. Always mix you paints, especially when airbrushing, in a separate container, and never pour that mixture back into the original bottle. I have a selection of empty bottles I keep on my workbench for saving mixes, and I label them with appropriate annotation of ratios and colors. But I usually try to mix only what I need for one airbrush session. It's easier to mix more than to keep too much.
VR, Russ
tankglasgow
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 01:37 AM UTC
Yeah I always seem to have problems with XF2 as well, the last time I used it I was expecting trouble and thinned the paint more than usual (normally 50:50 paint and Tamiya acrylic thinner) maybe 70:30+/-, this helped the flow and let me build up the opacity slowly with a few coats.
11Bravo_C2
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Texas, United States
Joined: May 12, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 01:40 AM UTC
David,

I mix my Tamiya paints with Mr Color Leveling Thinner (Lacquer), to a "milk" like consistency and spray at low pressures (10 - 15 psi) with a .35mm needle nozzle and never had sputtering issues. White and Yellow paints, to me, seem to have coverage issues so I do multiple very light passes with the AB.

This I read at the Mission Models Paint FAQ. (Not the same type paint, but we are focused on pigments)


Quoted Text

...Paints by nature even when "airbrush ready" mix at varying consistency when formulating the paint. For example based on pigment values white pigment may be larger than green pigments no matter how fine the pigments are ground. White is the larger pigment in raw form. What this means is one color may seem a bit thicker than another. This is not something to worry about and it is not a problem with the paint by any means...



p.s. The only times I've noticed paint sputtering is when i'm using a dirty/clogged airbrush.
Sergas
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: April 13, 2017
KitMaker: 51 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 02:13 AM UTC
Thank you guys for the answers.

@Russ
I never had problems mixing the color and thinner right in the color bottle. So far i don`t see much of a difference in the finished paint. I sprayed a lot of German 3 tone Camouflage lately and the paint always came out the same.
But thanks for that information. I might change the way i store my Airbrush paints.

@Ivan

That is something i did not know. I always thought the Pigments in the Colors are all the same consistency.

cheers
David
bots1141
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 14, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 02:14 AM UTC
You definitely have to use a 50/50 mix with thinner or it will spit and spudder! For fine lines I use a 25/75 paint to thinner ratio. And I always add a few drops of Tamiya paint retarder.
j76lr
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 02:16 AM UTC
i never had a problem with it either . although I only used it as a whitewash and it was highly thinned .
Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 03:09 AM UTC
Tamiya has a paint retarder that should help with drying times.
11Bravo_C2
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 03:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Tamiya has a paint retarder that should help with drying times.


Is the tamiya retarder compatible with lacquer thinner?

David, something I didnt noticed mentioned.. Is the AB clean? If dirty and spraying with the larger pigment white paint, it could be an issue.
Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 04:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Tamiya has a paint retarder that should help with drying times.


Is the tamiya retarder compatible with lacquer thinner?


I don't know, I have used it with their X-20 (acrylic) thinner with no issue.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 04:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thank you guys for the answers.

@Russ
I never had problems mixing the color and thinner right in the color bottle. So far i don`t see much of a difference in the finished paint. I sprayed a lot of German 3 tone Camouflage lately and the paint always came out the same.
But thanks for that information. I might change the way i store my Airbrush paints.

@Ivan

That is something i did not know. I always thought the Pigments in the Colors are all the same consistency.

cheers
David


David,
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you do-- are you mixing the paints with thinner directly in the Tamiya Jar, or in another container? If you add thinner directly to the entire jar of paint, the next time you use that jar of paint, the pigments are diluted and you've significantly altered the chemical content of the jar. Lacquer thinner eventually breaks down pigments and dissolves the acrylic "binders" the pigments are suspended in (which may be the cause of the splattering you mention). It really doesn't matter what paint formulation you use,you shouldn't introduce thinner directly into the jar the paints come in. The only paints I'm aware of that use a method of adding thinner to the jar are the Mr. Hobby Lacquers, whose paints purposely come mixed in a concentrate so they'll go farther when mixed with their Mr. Hobby Leveling Thinner (which also works with Tamiya paints). I understand Mission Model Acrylic Paint uses a similar method for their new acrylic line too, but they recommend mixing in a separate container as well. The manufacturer has formulated the paint to maintain the proper balance of binder (some also call it a "carrier") to pigment which ensures a uniform color throughout the life of the jar of paint. They expect the consumer to mix the paints to the proper consistency for airbrushing outside the jar using their own proprietary thinners.
VR, Russ
varanusk
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ARMORAMA
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Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / Espaņa
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 02:46 PM UTC
I had problems in the past with Tamiya flat white as well, it was a mess to airbrush it. And once applied I could not use the hairspray technique because it sticked forever to the model.

So no more Tamiya for me...
TotemWolf
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: February 11, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 07:08 PM UTC
I use it mixed 2:1 with X-20A at about 15 PSI and never have a problem. And I also mix a whole bottle at a time.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 08:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I use it mixed 2:1 with X-20A at about 15 PSI and never have a problem. And I also mix a whole bottle at a time.


Yes, but you're using X20A which is thier proprietary thinner. He's using lacquer thinner which is a different formulation. I never have a problem with Tamiya white either when I use X20A, or Mr. Color Leveling Thinner.
VR Russ
TotemWolf
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Oklahoma, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 10:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I use it mixed 2:1 with X-20A at about 15 PSI and never have a problem. And I also mix a whole bottle at a time.


Yes, but you're using X20A which is thier proprietary thinner. He's using lacquer thinner which is a different formulation. I never have a problem with Tamiya white either when I use X20A, or Mr. Color Leveling Thinner.
VR Russ

Exactly. That was kinda my point.
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