I'm starting on my third build and I'd like to learn how to use oils for weathering/filtering.

Do I apply the oil on a glossy finish or a matte finish?

Pin washes require a gloss finish, but I'm unsure if using oils for color modulation/weathering/filtering is best done on a flat surface.

Thank you

I prefer a flay finish for that.

G

What he said,flat finish.

I take you mean oils as in 'artist oils'. Place the oil on cardboard first...to soak up the linseed oil. A high probability of a slight sheen will appear on your work, flat or glossy, and will be difficult to repair/fix, if you don't. Your oil will still be pliable enough on the cardboard to last 2 to maybe 3 days of application time. Pre-plan the number of colors of oils you think you might use and put all of them on the cardboard at the same time. This is my technique...others of course will vary in theirs.

Thank you all for this info.

get hold of some of Abteilung's matt effect thinner. Works as advertised. I've also heard good things about a product called Diluent N from the German company Schminke. It's an artist's product. Supposed to be particularly quick drying. I have some but haven't had the opportunity to use it.

I don't want to create another thread, so I'll ask here....

Do YOU prefer to use pre-made (AK-Interactive, etc...) filters and just brush them on, or do you prefer using oils?

I've never used a premade filter. I usually use oils, enamels or a mix of both to obtain the shade(s) I need.

G

Not wanting to start another thread, so I'm asking all you oil painters a question here.....

How do you paint with oils? What's your sequence? Do you paint a section at a time? I've been reading some of Micheal Rinaldi's works and I love his approach, but being only on my 3rd kit, I know I'm biting off way more than I can chew.

I'm still stuck on "what to do next".

Prime, base coat.......and then what? Chips? filters? then weathering?

Try this 27 videos.
Should help, but a lot of times it is a go back and forth kind of deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IkBFWzwJ-s


Cheers

Thanks Jeff

I just found these this morning at work today and started watching them. Very detailed and easily explained.

I know it's one step at a time.

Thanks for the help

I love oils. I use oils to make my pin washes, make my filters if I need them, and to do streaking/fading or as Rinaldi calls it OPR.

As you mentioned, a finish towards glossy makes it easier to do a wash / pin wash. But while oils are controllable on a flat finish, sometimes they end up staining and creating "water marks" (obviously not water...) on a really flat surface.

As such I prefer something in the eggshell to satin range... best of both worlds I think.

So, is it best to use a satin varnish then before applying your oil weathering?

I noticed this on my current build. Panzer grey color and when I applied some blues the next day it looked like water stains.

Thanks

You don't have to put on any sealer coat at all if you don't want to. I just finished putting an oil wash right on top of the acrylic paint in the P-61 cockpit I'm working on. However, other than some light acrylic chipping, that is the only weather that area will receive. Before I weather the outside I will seal it first.

The idea behind the gloss or satin coat is to seal in the base coat and the markings to prevent any 'damage' to it during the rest of the weather, Also it is used to equal out some of the modulation in the paint scheme.
The smoother the surface the easy it is to apply the oils but also the smoother it is the more the thin oils will spread out.

Bottom line is don't be afraid to ask questions but don't feel you have to do it this way or that way. Basically you need to take the techniques shown and find the way to use them that works best for you.

By the way, Youtube videos like the ones posted above can be a great help in learning how to get the effect you want.

Enjoy, have fun, and never quit learning.

Pay attention to things like that. If you like that effect remember how did and repeat as needed. If not remember not to do it.

Well, I do know for sure I do not like water marks, so, that being said I will apply a satin varnish after my washes and see how that goes.

Even though it can be frustrating making mistakes, it's a great learning tool.

Thank you all for the advise.

I do think experimenting is the best way to learn!

But yeah, for starters I would try to apply a satin coat and see how you like it.

If you have time, its a fun experiment to paint a couple identical pieces (say extra versions of side armor in a kit, or something like that) then treat each with a different coat--
(1) Plain paint, no coat
(2) gentle eggshell/satin coat
(3) as high gloss as you can make it!

Then try the same techniques like pin wash, streaks, pigments on each and see how they react.

A little time consuming, but sorta fun if you have the scientist mindset

Or you could give half a kit a satin or glossy varnish and experiment.

I did so with a kit and is a nice experiment.

You can try with the oil directly, giving a fine coat of white spirit or similar and afterwards the oils and see the differences.

I would recommend that you write down where on the kit you are going to do it directly, with a prior light coat of white spirit and that you write down afterwards how it behave, if you liked it or not, for what it might be useful because later in can be a pain in the ass to try to remember everything.

I would try everything in small areas: filter, general wash, pin wash, oil dot, streaks, etc.

You could try to see if you are able to remove the paint or not, if you can remove it one and two days later. It will help you decide what can be better for you.

I found that I prefer a satin coat for most of the effects but for some a matt surface can be better such as for a filter or to imitate dust accumulation on a surface.

Regards,
Angel

Hi John, great to see this discussion, lots of good information and I'm happy to help if I can. If you're new to oils in the manner I'm showing with OPR, I suggest that you follow exactly how I show it the first few times in a practice effort. Get comfortable with the cardboard palette, amount of oil used on the brush, the amount of thinner being used (specifically how little is being used), and study the bushes in the close-up photos to see what they look like with paint on them and so forth.

There were recent videos from a few seminars I gave at a couple of shows this year on YouTube that go into this in greater detail. A quick search of my name brings them up, (I don't want it to look like I'm making a sales pitch in the thread lol).

I prefer a matte surface. For the type of effects I'm after, working on smoother satin and glossy surfaces makes it harder to control, refine and capture the right look. I prefer a bit of tooth to the surface. With that said, the quality of the airbrushed base coat makes a difference, I spray matte very smoothly so it is not a rough surface be any means. Newer paints like Mission Models urethane acrylics can be laid down super smooth, eliminating the varnish question(s) in many cases.

And if you prefer satin, which is cool too, they can be easily sprayed satin out of the airbrush with some of their Polyurethane Mix additive. I like that it side steps a lot of this conversation about varnishes, and I've been able to work even faster with less hassles, as a result.

Regarding tide marks -- if you are seeing tide marks (or water marks), there are a couple of factors involved and reasons why. First, you are likely using too much thinner. It's bleeding out too much, requiring a lot of effort to clean and wipe away, and ultimately the final look is basically dictated by that process (one reason a lot of models start looking the same). I'm not a fan of leaving washes on the surface and then coming back later to fix them. It's a classically taught process that I feel can be greatly improved upon.

You lose control of how the final look will be because you are dealing with the tide marks. The solution is to reduce the amount of oil and thinner being applied. This refers to all processes, not just the (pin)washes. I've had a chance to talk with a lot of modelers lately and that seems to be a core issue. Quantity is critical to success, and since you are new to this it should help a lot to learn it out of the gate. The learning curve will be in your favor!

You might also be using too big of a brush, compounding the above further. Pinwashes when applied correctly should have little-to-no bleed at all. Same with streaks, and the other variety of stains. The only time I use more thinner is when I want to diffuse an application, such as creating dust over a section.

And this is the foundation of working with oil paints, the amount of thinner used is the deciding factor in the effect you want to achieve.

Lastly, use a hair dryer to speed up the drying. This also helps to kill any tide marks before they can even form.

If you have any of the books, let me know which one(s), and I can guide you using what you have on hand to read. Hope this helps!

I will for one add this. I do not use all of the already mentioned methods. But I will mirror Michael's ideas about the use of less thinner. I have tried the methods of using heavily thinned washes and pin washes and cleaning up. I can never get the tide marks removed to the level I want. The answer has been to filter over top and cover them up... I have been experimenting with something like what he is talking about for awhile (not to the quality he does) and it is the way to go. Oil paint and its ability to control how opaque it is makes it the best medium hands down. He does not hit on the importance of the cardboard pallet. I find I struggle with controlling the oil if it has the linseed oil in it still. The drying time is an added bonus.

I didn't want to create another thread so I thought'd I'd hijack my own

I'm trying to weather a Panther tank, using oils, and I think I'm understanding the whole "less is more" approach, however, I'm STILL getting what I can only describe and ugly streaks (not the good ones you want).

I know 99.9% of my issue is lack of experience (this is only my 4th build) and my lack of color modulation and my less than knowledgeable understanding of the color palette. I know this will call come with time.

I'm still struggling with how my thinner to NOT have on your brush. Too much and you get a runny dusting which I don't want (at least that's not my intention).

I'm trying to make the Panther tank look grimy using burnt umbers, pan greys and the like but maybe I'm using the wrong colors or techniques.

Just watched some more of Michael Rinaldi's videos and a few others from the (I think)Toronto IMPS and after a couple builds things are making more sense than they did a month ago.

Maybe it's my oils!? They are the cheap $20 pack from Micheals.

I'll try and add a photo to help show what I'm trying to articulate here.

Appreciate all the help I've gotten here.