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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Meng M-2A3 conversion to A2
B2Blain
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 02:17 AM UTC
I took a look at Gino's conversion but still had a few questions. I mainly started with the M-2A3 because I wanted the interior. I was planning on purchasing sprues from Tamiya's ODS kit but I am now thinking about purchasing the Academy M-2A2 OIF and using that. Then I can later build an A3.

Is Academy's bustle rack more accurate than Tamiya's?

I am also thinking about building a diorama focused on TF 1-64 drive south down Highway 8 to destroy the remnants of the Medina Division after the capture of Object Saints. I was thinking about including a highway sign from Echelon but wasn't sure how to read it. Does the "Hilla/Mahmudiya sign in the following link indicate that you are on Hwy 8 or does it point to an exit to Hwy 8?

http://www.echelonfd.com/firstfrontier/SN355002.htm

Last, does anyone know what is the approximate lane width I should use for highways?

Thanks,
Blain

HeavyArty
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 03:53 AM UTC
Good choice, mine was a fun build. The Academy bustle rack is basically a copy of the Tamiya one, so no difference there. I can't help on the signage. The lane width on Iraqi highways is the same as US highways, 10 feet, which equals 87mm in 1/35 scale. Good luck.
Burik
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 06:31 AM UTC
It sounds like a great project. I'm looking forward to see what you do with it. The sign would typically come with a second one next to it since there will be a split coming up. The Hilla sign is saying to stay straight if you want to continue on Highway 8, so that sign would be on the left of the two signs. There would be a sign next to it (on the right) like the Rutba one telling you to bear right if you want to go there via Highway 1. It seems to me you would want to use both if you can figure that out - but your dio might get larger than you want it to be.

BTW, it is ok that one is bluish and the other greenish. I have photos of them both together.

B2Blain
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 01:20 PM UTC
Gino and Robert,

Thank you for you advice. I am about 80% complete on my M-1A1 AIM. I haven't started the Bradley yet. I have wanted to build a diorama since I was a child but didn't attempt one as it was too challenging. Hopefully YouTube and this forum will be of great assistance.

I'd like to have an Abrams and Bradley from TF 1-64 parked on the highway, waiting to advance down Highway 8 into Mahmudiya - including a vignette on the side of the road of a little action - U.S. infantry capturing soldiers or insurgents and a ZSU-23-2 emplacement or a T-72/BMP in a tank emplacement.

My concern right now is size and the time it will take to complete, paint, and weather the vehicles. I am a perfectionist so it is either going to get done and look good or its going to become a shelf queen.

I'll try to update when I have more.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 02:22 PM UTC
Some thoughts on sizes and such.
Before going too far maybe you could try positioning the Abrams and a Bradley on a large paper and draw in the positions of all the items you want in the diorama/vignette. Depending on how large (length/width) the whole thing is allowed to become you may need to skip some items.
I may be wrong but an armoured vehicle, or even a heavier MG, in an emplacement would need to be some distance away from the edge of the road to get usable firing angles, especially if the road is raised above the surrounding terrain.

/ Robin
white4doc
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 05:18 PM UTC
I have some pictures of that area from 2003, my unit was in Babylon for about 10 days in late May/early June, we were out and about constantly, including in Hillah and Mumahdiyah. I was with the Marines but they might give you an idea of the lay of the land, I'd be happy to share them with you if you think they might help.
B2Blain
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 12:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Some thoughts on sizes and such.
Before going too far maybe you could try positioning the Abrams and a Bradley on a large paper and draw in the positions of all the items you want in the diorama/vignette. Depending on how large (length/width) the whole thing is allowed to become you may need to skip some items.
I may be wrong but an armoured vehicle, or even a heavier MG, in an emplacement would need to be some distance away from the edge of the road to get usable firing angles, especially if the road is raised above the surrounding terrain.

/ Robin


Robin,
Thanks for the suggestions. I constructed a rough outline. Any diorama with two armored vehicles - Abrams and Bradley - even parked on a highway is big. Assuming I finish it, I don't know where I am going to put it. I might not want to be so ambitious with my first one.

I am going to take some artistic license. I just want everything to be spaced correctly. Highway scenes are pretty plain. I found this pic of a ZSU-23 right up next to the highway - page 28.

https://www.scribd.com/document/54264610/Thunder-Run-US-3rd-Infantry-s-Drive-to-Baghdad

I think with the Iraqis you have to expect questionable tactics. It might make a nice little vignette. Would insurgents operated AAA?

An armored vehicle is more problematic. It would either be burning on the side of the road as the column rolled up or destroyed from a previous air strike. My original idea was to have the TF 1-64 rolling up on the rear of remnants of the Medina Division which was originally expecting an attack from the south and not the north. But I am going to have to rethink this one.
B2Blain
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 01:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have some pictures of that area from 2003, my unit was in Babylon for about 10 days in late May/early June, we were out and about constantly, including in Hillah and Mumahdiyah. I was with the Marines but they might give you an idea of the lay of the land, I'd be happy to share them with you if you think they might help.


Thanks! I would love to see the pics. I've looked around on the internet and there is very little - considering it was a major conflict. I am reading Jason Conroy's Heavy Metal to get a good idea of what it was like for TF 1-64.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 12:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

.....

I am going to take some artistic license. I just want everything to be spaced correctly. Highway scenes are pretty plain. I found this pic of a ZSU-23 right up next to the highway - page 28.

https://www.scribd.com/document/54264610/Thunder-Run-US-3rd-Infantry-s-Drive-to-Baghdad

I think with the Iraqis you have to expect questionable tactics. It might make a nice little vignette. ....


That ZU-23-2 is right beside the road in a built up position so that it has a free field of fire across the road. Note the slope from the road down to the surrounding terrain. If the gun had been placed on the "original" terrain the road bank would have blocked part of the field of fire.

That position would probably fit. If you have the road more or less diagonally across a rectangular base plate with an Abrams and a Bradley along the edge of the road then there would be enough space in the "empty" triangle between the edge of the tarmac/asphalt and the corner of the baseplate.

I was about to suggest splitting the diorama into two sections that can be joined together for the full display but the joint will be very difficult to hide. If the road surface had been made of concrete slabs with joints then it might have worked ...
/ Robin
B2Blain
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2017 - 04:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

.....

I am going to take some artistic license. I just want everything to be spaced correctly. Highway scenes are pretty plain. I found this pic of a ZSU-23 right up next to the highway - page 28.

https://www.scribd.com/document/54264610/Thunder-Run-US-3rd-Infantry-s-Drive-to-Baghdad

I think with the Iraqis you have to expect questionable tactics. It might make a nice little vignette. ....


That ZU-23-2 is right beside the road in a built up position so that it has a free field of fire across the road. Note the slope from the road down to the surrounding terrain. If the gun had been placed on the "original" terrain the road bank would have blocked part of the field of fire.

That position would probably fit. If you have the road more or less diagonally across a rectangular base plate with an Abrams and a Bradley along the edge of the road then there would be enough space in the "empty" triangle between the edge of the tarmac/asphalt and the corner of the baseplate.

I was about to suggest splitting the diorama into two sections that can be joined together for the full display but the joint will be very difficult to hide. If the road surface had been made of concrete slabs with joints then it might have worked ...
/ Robin


Thanks! I thought about splitting it but decided against it because of the same reason. One of the ideas I am considering is including a dug in Medina Division T-72 or BMP-2 on the side of the highway.

I didn't want to attempt a damaged or burning vehicle. How realistic would it be for US tankers to roll up on a dug in Iraqi tank/APC and not pump a round into it as soon as identified?


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