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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Pin wash on textured surface. Please advise.
retiredyank
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Arkansas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 06:22 AM UTC
I've searched Google and Youtube for information on how to apply a pin wash to a vehicle, with anti-skid or cast texture to no avail. I have the problem that the was flows around the textured parts; rather than stay neatly, along the panel line. I can never seem to get the excess off. I have applied gloss coats and failed to achieve a clean line. My go to is cotton swabs, but like everything else there is some paint left over. Can anyone point me, in the right direction? Many thanks for your time and experience.
flippen_waffles
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 08:42 AM UTC
Are you washing with acrylics or oils?
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 01:15 PM UTC
I've tried both, but prefer oils.
Maki
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Croatia Hrvatska
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 01:55 PM UTC
I don't use cotton swabs, but a fine pointed brush for removing excess wash. Brush gives you much more precision.

Mario
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 04:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't use cotton swabs, but a fine pointed brush for removing excess wash. Brush gives you much more precision.

Mario



I'll keep that, in mind. My current difficulty is that the wash has run, into a cast area. This would be great for a filter, but that is not what I am trying to achieve.
d6mst0
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 04:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't use cotton swabs, but a fine pointed brush for removing excess wash. Brush gives you much more precision.

Mario



I use a fine pointed brush also. This way I don't have to pick off the fine cotton fibers the swabs leave behind.
ninjrk
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 05:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've searched Google and Youtube for information on how to apply a pin wash to a vehicle, with anti-skid or cast texture to no avail. I have the problem that the was flows around the textured parts; rather than stay neatly, along the panel line. I can never seem to get the excess off. I have applied gloss coats and failed to achieve a clean line. My go to is cotton swabs, but like everything else there is some paint left over. Can anyone point me, in the right direction? Many thanks for your time and experience.



If I may, use slightly thinned oil paint along the line and then wipe most of it off when done. I saw a Mike Rinaldi video on youtube recently where he was demonstrating this technique and it is completely controllable. I'm wrapping up a 1/35 Battlemech at the moment and my goal is to not use washes at all but try and do a compete model with the technique. My experiments to date are really positive.
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 05:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I've searched Google and Youtube for information on how to apply a pin wash to a vehicle, with anti-skid or cast texture to no avail. I have the problem that the was flows around the textured parts; rather than stay neatly, along the panel line. I can never seem to get the excess off. I have applied gloss coats and failed to achieve a clean line. My go to is cotton swabs, but like everything else there is some paint left over. Can anyone point me, in the right direction? Many thanks for your time and experience.



If I may, use slightly thinned oil paint along the line and then wipe most of it off when done. I saw a Mike Rinaldi video on youtube recently where he was demonstrating this technique and it is completely controllable. I'm wrapping up a 1/35 Battlemech at the moment and my goal is to not use washes at all but try and do a compete model with the technique. My experiments to date are really positive.



He looks to have several videos. I have a weekend planned, with my girlfriends; but will try and watch it, soon. Thank you.
flippen_waffles
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 07:52 PM UTC
I will wet the surface of where I am applying the wash with mineral spirits first. This helps me control the wash a little more. If I get wash where I don't want it, I'll use a brush moistened with spirits and clean the affected area.
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 10:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I will wet the surface of where I am applying the wash with mineral spirits first. This helps me control the wash a little more. If I get wash where I don't want it, I'll use a brush moistened with spirits and clean the affected area.



I will give that a try. I have watched the Wilder series and a couple of more I can't recall the name of. All of the wash applications have been on smooth surfaces, though.
CellarDweller21516
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Posted: Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 10:09 PM UTC
I used to have the same problem...I make sure my models have a super smooth finish by applying a gloss coat and then taking high grade sandpaper (2000 grit) and VERY lightly run the sandpaper (or sanding stick) over the model and use a fiber glass brush to smoothen the nooks and crannies where you want the wash to go (again very lightly)...I apply a second gloss coat over the coat I just sanded...if the surface is super smooth with no tiny little imperfections the wash will have nothing to collect around...the gloss coat makes it easy to remove any excess wash with no tidemarks like you would get if you applied your washes over a matt coat...after I am done with the washes I hit it with a satin coat to seal everything in
brekinapez
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 12:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I have a weekend planned, with my girlfriends;



How many do you have?
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 01:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



I have a weekend planned, with my girlfriends;



How many do you have?



Currently, two. And, yes, they know about each other.
rinaldi119
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 01:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've searched Google and Youtube for information on how to apply a pin wash to a vehicle, with anti-skid or cast texture to no avail. I have the problem that the was flows around the textured parts; rather than stay neatly, along the panel line. I can never seem to get the excess off. I have applied gloss coats and failed to achieve a clean line. My go to is cotton swabs, but like everything else there is some paint left over. Can anyone point me, in the right direction? Many thanks for your time and experience.



Hi Matt, you are using too much thinner. It's too wet and going everywhere you don't want it to. Reduce the amount of thinner in your application, and this should make it a lot easier to control, reduce the excess bleeding, and cut way back on the tide marks. A gloss coat will just exaggerate this issue, I'd reapply a matte varnish, to be honest. Then draw the pin wash on like using a wet pencil, if that makes sense. HTH!
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 01:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I've searched Google and Youtube for information on how to apply a pin wash to a vehicle, with anti-skid or cast texture to no avail. I have the problem that the was flows around the textured parts; rather than stay neatly, along the panel line. I can never seem to get the excess off. I have applied gloss coats and failed to achieve a clean line. My go to is cotton swabs, but like everything else there is some paint left over. Can anyone point me, in the right direction? Many thanks for your time and experience.



Hi Matt, you are using too much thinner. It's too wet and going everywhere you don't want it to. Reduce the amount of thinner in your application, and this should make it a lot easier to control, reduce the excess bleeding, and cut way back on the tide marks. A gloss coat will just exaggerate this issue, I'd reapply a matte varnish, to be honest. Then draw the pin wash on like using a wet pencil, if that makes sense. HTH!



I appreciate your sage advice. That does make sense. I will certainly try this. Also, I may try a wash over a satin surface, to help pool the wash. This is an issue that has troubled me, for a few years.
alanmac
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Posted: Friday, September 15, 2017 - 11:43 AM UTC

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I have a weekend planned, with my girlfriends;



How many do you have?



Currently, two. And, yes, they know about each other.



I guess your making sure if one gets a puncture and starts leaking air then the other one is still usable.
mogdude
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Posted: Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 07:25 PM UTC

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Quoted Text


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I have a weekend planned, with my girlfriends;



How many do you have?



Currently, two. And, yes, they know about each other.



I guess your making sure if one gets a puncture and starts leaking air then the other one is still usable.



With two girl friends sure wouldnt be watching that type of video !
sgtreef
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Posted: Sunday, September 17, 2017 - 05:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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I have a weekend planned, with my girlfriends;



How many do you have?



Currently, two. And, yes, they know about each other.



Sounds the plan, and of cause a video sent to my Email. LOL

Just the girls of cause. LOL

Kidding or am I. LOL

Heck with the washes, way more entertaining.

But back to the subject them washes can be different sometimes.
cabasner
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 07:15 AM UTC
Matt,

I just thought I'd chime in here and let you know that you are not alone in the issues you are having. In particular, I have found that if I am trying to pick out details on the part of a tank that has anti-skid applied, especially anti-skid that I applied (as opposed to that which is molded on in the styrene) the pin wash goes everywhere via capillary action. I haven't figured out a way to address this either. Even if I am able to clean up some of the dark wash with another brush, there is still a darker cast on the surface. In my cases, thus far, there is a minor benefit in that the darker surface adds to a dirty look, which has been a good thing, but that is just serendipity. If I had wanted a clean look, I would not have been able to achieve that.

I'll try some of the ideas that Mr. Rinaldi suggested, and hope that significantly reduces the capillary action. Still, depending upon the 'fineness' of the anti-skid, there may be no way to completely eliminate the capillary action. I'm thinking, despite Mr, Rinaldi's recommendation, that reducing the thinner will make it much harder to get the thinner to flow into the panel line gaps. I haven't tried it, though, so I may not be correct in this. Good luck! It would be great if you could post how you make out, if you try that method.
rinaldi119
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 10:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Matt,

I just thought I'd chime in here and let you know that you are not alone in the issues you are having. In particular, I have found that if I am trying to pick out details on the part of a tank that has anti-skid applied, especially anti-skid that I applied (as opposed to that which is molded on in the styrene) the pin wash goes everywhere via capillary action. I haven't figured out a way to address this either. Even if I am able to clean up some of the dark wash with another brush, there is still a darker cast on the surface. In my cases, thus far, there is a minor benefit in that the darker surface adds to a dirty look, which has been a good thing, but that is just serendipity. If I had wanted a clean look, I would not have been able to achieve that.

I'll try some of the ideas that Mr. Rinaldi suggested, and hope that significantly reduces the capillary action. Still, depending upon the 'fineness' of the anti-skid, there may be no way to completely eliminate the capillary action. I'm thinking, despite Mr, Rinaldi's recommendation, that reducing the thinner will make it much harder to get the thinner to flow into the panel line gaps. I haven't tried it, though, so I may not be correct in this. Good luck! It would be great if you could post how you make out, if you try that method.



A pin wash by definition should not be bleeding out, that is the root of a lot issues being described, and something I discuss at length in my writings. It is why I replied earlier to help you guys better understand how to achieve the success you after after.

Quantity matters, and you control the washes with the amount of thinner used. Think about this in the sense of drawing, versus touching and letting capillary action do the work. It requires a bit more finesse, but the results are considerably improved and less clumsy. When done correctly, you can apply a panel line wash with no bleeding, and this moves things along faster, more efficiently (because there is far less cleanup), and with improved control to actually create specific visual effects. This also implies you are going to need to use your own washes versus the pre-made products, since you need to control how much thinner is being used.

Another benefit of the reduction in thinner idea is that it allows you to not be overly repetitive due to the clean up process controlling the end result more than you are, therefore the models will begin to look more unique across the various projects.

Lastly, brush size matters, especially if too large or a dull tip. Stick with a sharp #2, or similar size, and practice until you can add the pin wash with almost no bleeding. The right tools, less thinner or product used, more control and precision, and you should see better results. HTH!

This video covers this concept pretty well: https://youtu.be/oE_9XijaHP8
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 11:18 AM UTC
So, I do not have a #2 brush. However, I can pick one up, today. I already have the test piece sprayed, with Mr Surfacer 1200. Hopefully, I can try out different reductions and post some photos, today.
firstcircle
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 01:46 PM UTC
It may be helpful to just dump the word "wash" completely. You're trying to obtain a fine line which will either be flat on both edges, or flat one side, feathered / blended / faded on the other. As Mike says, applying the paint accurately in the first place, just thinned enough to be able to paint a smooth line, but not so thin that it capillaries anywhere, should resolve your issue. If you want a blended / feathered edge to the line, trying blending it with the tiniest amount of thiiner on the brush - like you dip the brush tip once in about 0.5mm depth of thinner and then wwipe it off on a tissue, then blow on it, so it looks dry, not wet at all. The solvent is oily so will still be there. Then try blending the paint. If you just remove it completely then it's too much thinner or the paint is too damp. Try blowing on it to dry it off while you're blending it. Also, try enamel instead of oil paint.
gaborka
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 02:58 PM UTC
You could try a Gundam Marker or a Copic fine line pen, they come in as thin as 0,015mm tip size, super for such purposes. There are several colors available.

 _GOTOTOP