I don't mind cleaning my airbrush but I'm done with Vallejo. I'm putting thinner in with their Model Air and my airbrush is getting clogged damn near every session and I'm done.
How is the new mission model paints? Are they going to clog the second it goes through my AB?
Any other recommendations for paints.
Thanks
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Done with Vallejo paints could use some help
imnewtomodels
Joined: September 01, 2017
KitMaker: 39 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 07:14 AM UTC
prophecy
Joined: November 09, 2010
KitMaker: 158 posts
Armorama: 157 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 09:44 AM UTC
Mission Models paints are very good. No clogging. Just mix it with their thinner and Polyurethane and you will be fine.
Pave-Hawk
Joined: May 05, 2006
KitMaker: 900 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 09:56 AM UTC
Why are you adding thinner to model air paints? They are already thinned for airbrushing.
stooga
Joined: March 19, 2007
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 35 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 09:58 AM UTC
I don't want to second guess you, and I know a lot of people who have given up on VMA, but my experience with it has been nothing but positive when used with their own thinner and a little flow improver. Sure I get a little paint drying on the tip, but nothing that a brief swipe with a q tip won't fix (and I think that's the same with most acrylics other than those that are thinned with lacquer thinner).
My point is that I have never had anything you could call a 'clogged' AB, and that made me wonder about thinner ratio and compatibility...
My point is that I have never had anything you could call a 'clogged' AB, and that made me wonder about thinner ratio and compatibility...
justsendit
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 11:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
... I'm putting thinner in with their Model Air and my airbrush is getting clogged damn near every session and I'm done.
What brand thinner are you using? If you’re using a thinner other than Vallejo Thinner (71.161) that could possibly be the cause. HTH.
—mike
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 04:29 PM UTC
I echo what has already been stated. It took a little while to figure out how to thin Model Color. But, I have never had to thin Model Air.
Lawyer1
Joined: July 22, 2015
KitMaker: 72 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 05:53 PM UTC
Must agree with John. I had some Vallejo paints and simply gave the stuff away. With thinners, without thinners, with water, with a small amount of dish washing liquid - absolutely nothing helped. The paint wouldn't even go through the airbrush, adjusted the psi up and down and nothing helped, so I just gave it all away and now I stick with tried and tested Tamiya.
firstcircle
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,249 posts
Armorama: 2,007 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 06:32 PM UTC
John, in my experience you need to use acrylic retarder - so, Liquitex, Winsor & Newton, etc. available from art shops, you don't need anything specially aimed at modellers. All paints might need thinning depending on how thick it comes out the bottle, but that's a different issue to retarder.
The issue you're having is that the paint is skinning on the nozzle, i.e. starting to cure almost immediately. The way to avoid that is to use up to about 25% retarder, you can even mix it in the airbrush cup, like put in 12 drops of paint, then 2 or 3 of retarder; stir it with a cocktail stick and then put your finger tip over the end of the a/b and gently bubble air in to the cup to help mix it.
Don't put in too much retarder however or you can find the paint never cures, which shows how effective it is. So this is probably cheaper than ditching all your paints, and you can also use the retarder with any acrylic paint (including Vallejo Model Air and Tamiya) when brush painting details.
The other solution is to use Tamiya, like Dudley said; these and Mr Hobby, which are not purely water based like Vallejo and many others, are much more forgiving in use, in my opinion; the only issue you tend to get with those is a rough texture where the paint is drying as it hits the surface, prior to spreading and coalescing into a smooth surface - and in fact the same retarder can also help with that issue. So in my view, no one using any type of acrylic should be without a bottle of retarder.
The issue you're having is that the paint is skinning on the nozzle, i.e. starting to cure almost immediately. The way to avoid that is to use up to about 25% retarder, you can even mix it in the airbrush cup, like put in 12 drops of paint, then 2 or 3 of retarder; stir it with a cocktail stick and then put your finger tip over the end of the a/b and gently bubble air in to the cup to help mix it.
Don't put in too much retarder however or you can find the paint never cures, which shows how effective it is. So this is probably cheaper than ditching all your paints, and you can also use the retarder with any acrylic paint (including Vallejo Model Air and Tamiya) when brush painting details.
The other solution is to use Tamiya, like Dudley said; these and Mr Hobby, which are not purely water based like Vallejo and many others, are much more forgiving in use, in my opinion; the only issue you tend to get with those is a rough texture where the paint is drying as it hits the surface, prior to spreading and coalescing into a smooth surface - and in fact the same retarder can also help with that issue. So in my view, no one using any type of acrylic should be without a bottle of retarder.
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 06:39 PM UTC
As said, the use of a retarder has made a difference for me with acrylics.
Vallejo's thinner also helps, and keep in mind that Mission Models paints *require* their own thinner
Vallejo's thinner also helps, and keep in mind that Mission Models paints *require* their own thinner
imnewtomodels
Joined: September 01, 2017
KitMaker: 39 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 06:46 PM UTC
I use Vallejo thinner and I also add a few drops of their flow improver.
The brush might be clogged. I can get water/cleaner to come out, but yet when I add paint after cleaning it barely sprays. I think the AB needs a deep cleaning.
Any recommendations on how to get the gunk cleaned out?
Thanks all
The brush might be clogged. I can get water/cleaner to come out, but yet when I add paint after cleaning it barely sprays. I think the AB needs a deep cleaning.
Any recommendations on how to get the gunk cleaned out?
Thanks all
Unreality
Joined: November 04, 2010
KitMaker: 172 posts
Armorama: 145 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 07:54 PM UTC
Clean with lacquer thinner. Will Pattison does a nice video on cleaning thoroughly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-ZmFsNpVBs&t=1626s
Keep in mind that even the best acrylics can still cause tip dry. I've even had that with Mission Models.
However, if you use Tamiya, Mr. Hobby, or Mig AMMO, you can thin with Mr. Levelling Thinner ( a lacquer), and they will airbrush sooooo smooth. But you have to deal with the odor.
Keep in mind that even the best acrylics can still cause tip dry. I've even had that with Mission Models.
However, if you use Tamiya, Mr. Hobby, or Mig AMMO, you can thin with Mr. Levelling Thinner ( a lacquer), and they will airbrush sooooo smooth. But you have to deal with the odor.
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 08:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I use Vallejo thinner and I also add a few drops of their flow improver.
The brush might be clogged. I can get water/cleaner to come out, but yet when I add paint after cleaning it barely sprays. I think the AB needs a deep cleaning.
Any recommendations on how to get the gunk cleaned out?
Thanks all
I agree with everyone's statement about retarder, thinners, and flow improver as I used them with great effect with Vallejo paints. I live in San Antonio, Texas and some days it can be challenge to paint when it's 104 degrees outside and AC has removed all the humidity.
After a few uses I totally breakdown the AB and give it complete cleaning. After removing the tip I use a very fine wire brush and clean out the path from the cup to the tip. I always fine paint on the brush knowing I did a thorough job cleaning the AB between each use. I always follow this step after spraying Future floor polish.
Mortifa
#464
Joined: December 02, 2016
KitMaker: 267 posts
Armorama: 196 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 10:41 PM UTC
I had a similar experience with Createx.
Some paint had dried in the chamber of my airbrush and I was unaware, bad paint and thinner mix, and that caused me nothing but grief.
Got an Iwata cleaning kit and no problems since, except I only use brand name thinners with brand name paints.
The flow improver actually works.
Some paint had dried in the chamber of my airbrush and I was unaware, bad paint and thinner mix, and that caused me nothing but grief.
Got an Iwata cleaning kit and no problems since, except I only use brand name thinners with brand name paints.
The flow improver actually works.
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 11:04 PM UTC
A clean AB is a happy AB (and owner).
I have posted this a couple of times because the dang thing works. A sonic cleaner. I fill it with water and let it go. If I need something stronger, in the case of my picture, I put in a jar of lacquer thinner and run it. I use acrylic thinner if necessary.
d6mst0 - I can relate - 112F, 0% humidity, stuff is drying before it hits the model. We don't need no stinkin' water trap
Cheers
I have posted this a couple of times because the dang thing works. A sonic cleaner. I fill it with water and let it go. If I need something stronger, in the case of my picture, I put in a jar of lacquer thinner and run it. I use acrylic thinner if necessary.
d6mst0 - I can relate - 112F, 0% humidity, stuff is drying before it hits the model. We don't need no stinkin' water trap
Cheers
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Friday, October 20, 2017 - 03:32 AM UTC
There is sonic and ultra sonic cleaners. I bought an ultra sonic cleaner and occasionally put some windex in it and run it for 2 minutes and the interior passages are squeaky clean. 
firstcircle
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,249 posts
Armorama: 2,007 posts
Posted: Friday, October 20, 2017 - 04:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I use Vallejo thinner and I also add a few drops of their flow improver.
John, just to clarify, flow improver and retarder are not the same product and do different things. Retarder prevents the paint from drying too quickly, and is what you need to prevent drying on the tip. Not too sure what flow improver is used for in airbrushing, but it is not intended to delay drying.
If you can get water to spray through OK then it doesn't sound like it is badly clogged... If the paint comes through a little but then spatters and stops then it may just be the current paint you're trying to spray drying again. Thinners and flow improver may not be helping at all, even thin acrylic paint dies very quickly unless you have retarder mixed with it.
What type of cleaner are you using? Airbrush cleaner should be enough if you've only used Vallejo Model Air in it; lacquer thinner and ultrasonic cleaners might be required if you've been mixing or using different types of paint or varnishes etc. You can get a better clean with airbrush cleaner if you just dump the needle, nozzle and end cap in the cleaning fluid in a sealed food container and just leave it over night. Try to get hold of a airbrush cleaning brush.
This video shows stripping and cleaning from 6min 50sec until about 11mins, a bit shorter than the hour long video linked to above
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POxfR1r2vH0
Lakota
#123
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,202 posts
Armorama: 635 posts
Posted: Friday, October 20, 2017 - 05:10 AM UTC
Howdy Y'all 
I've had problems with Vallejo paint drying rock-hard in the airbrush so now I clean like a fiend.
Other than that, I haven't had much problems with any brand of acrylic paint I've used. I love thinned Tamiya paint-flows like a dream. I just wish that Tamiya had more colors available.
Good luck,
Don "Lakota"
I've had problems with Vallejo paint drying rock-hard in the airbrush so now I clean like a fiend.
Other than that, I haven't had much problems with any brand of acrylic paint I've used. I love thinned Tamiya paint-flows like a dream. I just wish that Tamiya had more colors available.
Good luck,
Don "Lakota"
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Friday, October 20, 2017 - 05:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
As said, the use of a retarder has made a difference for me with acrylics.
Vallejo's thinner also helps, and keep in mind that Mission Models paints *require* their own thinner
This is true as it is true for any paint,any manufacturer say "require their own thinner", you can thinn MMP with UMP or Tamiya X-20A acrylic thinner without problem
bots1141
Joined: October 14, 2013
KitMaker: 318 posts
Armorama: 313 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 21, 2017 - 07:21 PM UTC
I cant seem to figure Vallejo out! Im trying to thin it with vallejo airbrush thinner and Im using liquitex and it still just spits and sputters coming out of my airbrush! I just finished deep cleaning my airbrush and it had no effect! I've never had this problem with Tamiya but they don't have the colors I want and I dont have any skill to mix and match colors to get the ones I want. Are AK and Mig pants as bad as Vallejo because they have more up to date paint sets that I want?
imnewtomodels
Joined: September 01, 2017
KitMaker: 39 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 21, 2017 - 07:45 PM UTC
After I use up the few Vallejo paints I have I'm switching to MMP.
76grenze
Joined: January 20, 2008
KitMaker: 35 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 21, 2017 - 07:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I cant seem to figure Vallejo out! Im trying to thin it with vallejo airbrush thinner and Im using liquitex and it still just spits and sputters coming out of my airbrush! I just finished deep cleaning my airbrush and it had no effect! I've never had this problem with Tamiya but they don't have the colors I want and I dont have any skill to mix and match colors to get the ones I want. Are AK and Mig pants as bad as Vallejo because they have more up to date paint sets that I want?
I have been using Mig Ammo for a couple of years and really like it. I can get it to flow thru AB nearly like Tamiya thinned with their lacquer thinner. The trick is to set the pressure lower and spray in very gradual thin layers. I use Ammo thinner, but just a couple of drops. Also, keep the flow spraying - if you pause more than a few moments it will start to clog. I find that if Ammo is used properly I get a very smooth, thin, complete coverage. Also, after fully curing, the paint is rock hard and will not scratch or scrape off. I just use their thinner and I have not tried Mr Color leveler. In fact I am transitioning to Ammo almost completely from Tamiya.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 21, 2017 - 08:43 PM UTC
I've said it before but I'll say it again..... if a paint manufacturer makes a thinner or additive for their paint use it. Don't try to take short cuts, save a few bucks or believe everything you hear and read. Thinner formulations are different around the world some are hot, some not, same for glass cleaners and anything else you find folks mixing with paint. Environmental laws are different country to country and are reflected in things like cleaners and paint products so what may work in country A might not in country B. I've even found differences state to state here. Also try to get a hold of the catalogs put out by paint manufacturers, they often will contain info on proper thinning and mixing.
Sure they want you to buy their products exclusively to use with their paints but they know how their paints are made and how best to mix them. I buy 'generic' thinners at home depot for brush and airbrush cleaning only. For everything else I go with the manufacturers thinners if possible. 40 plus years and coast to coast and in half a dozen countries I've been doing this and it took me 15 years to figure this out thru lots of trial and even more errors. Now I've switched almost exclusively to acrylics with occasional enamel and oils for weathering and I still follow the rule I set back then. Lowers the frustration level.
Sure they want you to buy their products exclusively to use with their paints but they know how their paints are made and how best to mix them. I buy 'generic' thinners at home depot for brush and airbrush cleaning only. For everything else I go with the manufacturers thinners if possible. 40 plus years and coast to coast and in half a dozen countries I've been doing this and it took me 15 years to figure this out thru lots of trial and even more errors. Now I've switched almost exclusively to acrylics with occasional enamel and oils for weathering and I still follow the rule I set back then. Lowers the frustration level.
j76lr
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,081 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 05:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Must agree with John. I had some Vallejo paints and simply gave the stuff away. With thinners, without thinners, with water, with a small amount of dish washing liquid - absolutely nothing helped. The paint wouldn't even go through the airbrush, adjusted the psi up and down and nothing helped, so I just gave it all away and now I stick with tried and tested Tamiya.
I agree. I dont like the bottles either. Ill stick to Tamiya or try the new real color .
fhvn4d
#159
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 803 posts
Armorama: 564 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 08:30 PM UTC
Just my 02 cents.... they take a bit to learn how to use, but once you get things like... 50 50 thinner is not unusual even for model air, and LOWER YOUR PRESSURE. The more thin your paint the lower the air pressure you need. I have sprayed straight out of the bottle at 15 and 10, and thinned paint even below that near 8 and still gotten beautiful lines. CLeaning my brush involves squirting clearer in and running it through twice.... I rarely have any issues. I think if I could add one piece of advice Id say dial down your air pressure and try again before you bail out on them.
KellyZak
Joined: August 19, 2003
KitMaker: 641 posts
Armorama: 503 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 09:45 PM UTC
Been using the MA Line for a couple of years without issues. But I got a Iwata Eclipse this past June, and had to re-learn how to airbrush. (previous AB was always my Aztek A470).
Found out the hard way my previous AB thinners/cleaners either a home made mix or straight up iso alcohol do not work as good thinners for the Vallejo line or the Ammo line. Soon as I put a couple drops of it in, it ruins the paint into little chunks, then I have to dump the ruined paint and tear down my AB to clean. Went and bought a bottle of the Vallejo AB thinner to mix a couple drops in, and it's fine. I still use my home made cleaner for after paint sessions which works fine.
I did not know about Vallejo Flow Improver, how does that work? is it a thinner as well, can both be used together in your paint cup with paint, or would it be overkill and thin the paint too much?
Found out the hard way my previous AB thinners/cleaners either a home made mix or straight up iso alcohol do not work as good thinners for the Vallejo line or the Ammo line. Soon as I put a couple drops of it in, it ruins the paint into little chunks, then I have to dump the ruined paint and tear down my AB to clean. Went and bought a bottle of the Vallejo AB thinner to mix a couple drops in, and it's fine. I still use my home made cleaner for after paint sessions which works fine.
I did not know about Vallejo Flow Improver, how does that work? is it a thinner as well, can both be used together in your paint cup with paint, or would it be overkill and thin the paint too much?
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