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Antipartisan Fighting
long_tom
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 03:48 AM UTC
I've read about how the Wehrmacht had had to fight partisans, and they did so using their inferior troops and equipment. But I want to learn how antipartisan warfare was actually performed. Where can I find more information?
Vicious
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 04:13 AM UTC
First partisan where ...? Europe is quite big, I'm the proud niece of Italian partisans, my uncle fought on the mountains of the Tosco-Emilian Apennines in Italy, my grandmother at that time being a teenager was running less the risk of being stopped (to be stopped meant prison, torture and execution) and made the ordering relay for partisans in the mountains.
In Italy they use SS, Wehrmacht and the Italian fascist soldier ... not really inferior troops, if the partisans attacked often did reprisals in nearby villages (read about Sant Anna di Stazzena massacre),or raided the mountains were the partisans was hiding
You can read also the story about the "repubblica partigiana della val d'Ossola",but in Italy from south to north,from City to moutains the story is planty of fight,massacre etc...same made from Nazi-fascis some sadly made from partisans
In Italy they use SS, Wehrmacht and the Italian fascist soldier ... not really inferior troops, if the partisans attacked often did reprisals in nearby villages (read about Sant Anna di Stazzena massacre),or raided the mountains were the partisans was hiding
You can read also the story about the "repubblica partigiana della val d'Ossola",but in Italy from south to north,from City to moutains the story is planty of fight,massacre etc...same made from Nazi-fascis some sadly made from partisans
Vicious
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 05:48 AM UTC
For equipment was used inferior stuff many times Italian armoured vehicles,tanks and trucks
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 03:07 PM UTC
Quoted Text
For equipment was used inferior stuff many times Italian armoured vehicles,tanks and trucks
In the Balkans, they also used Ex-French Army stuff :
Hotchkiss H39 :
Renault R35 :
B1 Bis :
H.P.
Vicious
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 03:20 PM UTC
Nice pictures ,in Italy I don't think they "import" beutepanzer ,also mountain region vehicles was not so effective nearly only for defence because the partisans usually they hide far from roads were only the soldiers can go
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 03:29 PM UTC
and the ADGZ and probably also the Skoda PA-II 'Turtle' armoured cars.
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/polizei-panzerkampfwagen-adgz-m35-mittlere-panzerwagen.htm
http://greyfalcon.us/SS%20PANZERWAGEN%20ADGZ.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnungspolizei
Anything the moved and was viable against the supposed threat level. No need for a Panther if the opposing weapons were machine guns, hunting rifles and similar ....
/ Robin
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/polizei-panzerkampfwagen-adgz-m35-mittlere-panzerwagen.htm
http://greyfalcon.us/SS%20PANZERWAGEN%20ADGZ.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnungspolizei
Anything the moved and was viable against the supposed threat level. No need for a Panther if the opposing weapons were machine guns, hunting rifles and similar ....
/ Robin
long_tom
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 04:30 PM UTC
Thanks! But I was interested also in how the antipartisan fighting actually took place. What was the procedure?
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 04:57 PM UTC
Revenge actions against villages suspected of supporting partisans.
Anti-guerilla warfare in woodlands and hills. Difficult business, slightly easier than in Vietnam though ...
Intelligence gathering, trying to pinpoint radio transmitters (if that specific group of partisans used them), trying to intercept messages, working with informants (and they got a gruesome death if the partisans caught them ...).
Since there are usually no heavy targets or fortifications most of the action can probably be classified as 'light infantry', in some cases supported by light armour.
Some background reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Anthropoid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le%C5%BE%C3%A1ky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Kutschera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_B%C3%BCrkl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_National_Uprising
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_resistance_movement_in_World_War_II
Don't know if the Warsaw uprising should be called a partisan action or full scale war ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising
The Germans used everything they had available to fight back, including Mörser Karl and other heavy weapons.
It's not a pretty business ....
Procedure: I think it depended on the circumstances.
From road/convoy security, reacting to an ambush, driving into a village with a few trucks loaded with SS/Polizei/other troops and murdering everyone to the full scale siege of Warsaw.
Chasing partisans in the Yugoslav alps is different from chasing Russians in the woodlands of Ukraine or looking for resistance fighters in attics and cellars.
/ Robin
Anti-guerilla warfare in woodlands and hills. Difficult business, slightly easier than in Vietnam though ...
Intelligence gathering, trying to pinpoint radio transmitters (if that specific group of partisans used them), trying to intercept messages, working with informants (and they got a gruesome death if the partisans caught them ...).
Since there are usually no heavy targets or fortifications most of the action can probably be classified as 'light infantry', in some cases supported by light armour.
Some background reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Anthropoid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le%C5%BE%C3%A1ky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Kutschera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_B%C3%BCrkl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_National_Uprising
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_resistance_movement_in_World_War_II
Don't know if the Warsaw uprising should be called a partisan action or full scale war ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising
The Germans used everything they had available to fight back, including Mörser Karl and other heavy weapons.
It's not a pretty business ....
Procedure: I think it depended on the circumstances.
From road/convoy security, reacting to an ambush, driving into a village with a few trucks loaded with SS/Polizei/other troops and murdering everyone to the full scale siege of Warsaw.
Chasing partisans in the Yugoslav alps is different from chasing Russians in the woodlands of Ukraine or looking for resistance fighters in attics and cellars.
/ Robin
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 05:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks! But I was interested also in how the antipartisan fighting actually took place. What was the procedure?
You might find some of the answers you're looking for here: http://jmss.org/jmss/index.php/jmss/article/viewFile/442/441
Pages 17 through 23 deal with the actual fighting tactics used by the Germans and their allies.
varanusk
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 05:29 PM UTC
Perhaps some interesting info also here:
German Antiguerrilla Operations in the Balkans (1941-1944)
German Antiguerrilla Operations in the Balkans (1941-1944)
Alessandro_Iug
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 06:03 PM UTC
Hi Tom
the antipartisan warfare is a subject I am really intrested indeed, I live in northeastern Italy, near the slovene border, actually I am slovene by origin. In the places where I live from 1943 to 1945 there was an intense problem with this subject, so I made a good research on it.
I can suggest some readings, you can look at this site:
http://www.panzer-ozak.it/
where you can find plenty of informations about the antipartisan warfare, well, at least this is a good start.
Cheers
Alessandro
the antipartisan warfare is a subject I am really intrested indeed, I live in northeastern Italy, near the slovene border, actually I am slovene by origin. In the places where I live from 1943 to 1945 there was an intense problem with this subject, so I made a good research on it.
I can suggest some readings, you can look at this site:
http://www.panzer-ozak.it/
where you can find plenty of informations about the antipartisan warfare, well, at least this is a good start.
Cheers
Alessandro
Bravo1102
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 06:48 PM UTC
And please don't forget partisan warfare in Greece, France and the Soviet Union. It was so bad in Greece units were pulled off the Russian front and diverted from Africa.
Also don't forget the contributions of the Reichspolitzei who often supplied the door soldiers and endured the derision of the Wehrmacht.
The Germans also allocated a lot of the partisan war to their allies such as Croat, Ukrainian, Italian and Bulgarian units.
Also don't forget the contributions of the Reichspolitzei who often supplied the door soldiers and endured the derision of the Wehrmacht.
The Germans also allocated a lot of the partisan war to their allies such as Croat, Ukrainian, Italian and Bulgarian units.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 06:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThanks! But I was interested also in how the antipartisan fighting actually took place. What was the procedure?
You might find some of the answers you're looking for here: http://jmss.org/jmss/index.php/jmss/article/viewFile/442/441
Pages 17 through 23 deal with the actual fighting tactics used by the Germans and their allies.
Very interesting!
Thanks / Robin
long_tom
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Posted: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 04:27 AM UTC
I got the Osprey book "Partisan Warfare 1941-45", which I started. I got through the Russian portion, where in fact the troops fighting them were poor quality indeed, at least at the outset. The partisans didn't even find them a good source of booty.
Jmarles
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Posted: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 05:36 AM UTC
Some units even used the FT17 tank. No matter where, partisan battles were always grim, and greatly affected the morale of the Germans. Reprisals, atrocities, lynching, rapes, etc were the norm. The SS involved, most never near full divisions, and some foreign and penal units harbouring deep feelings in ethnic and religious matters, used poor equipment and brutal tactics. Florian Geyer, Handschar, Dirlewanger, SS Police, etc come to mind.