Before making a start on a 1/76-scale model, I am looking for reliable information on the Fordson Armoured Car. Evidently, these vehicles were based on the earlier Rolls Royce version, and were operated mainly by No.2 Armoured Car Company, RAF (under the command of 11th Hussars). I have found a handful of photographs showing these vehicles in the Caunter scheme. Would this have been the normal camouflage scheme, or were others painted in a single desert colour ... a light stone perhaps?
Also, it appears that some vehicles were equipped with turret-mounted twin Vickers K machine guns for anti-aircraft defence, others being fitted with Lewis guns. Was there any preference for this armament?

They were Rolls-Royce bodies transplanted onto Fordson chassis when the Rolls chassis wore out.

No2 Company received their re-worked vehicles in time for Alamein. In a parade photo prior to Alamein of 11 cars the AA armament on display is single Browning .303, twin Browning .303 and single aircraft-type Lewis (no cooling jacket). There is only 1 twin Browning and the rest look about 50:50 single Browning and single Lewis. No Vickers K/VGO in sight. Water-cooled Vickers in the turrets, no Boys AT rifle.

In another photo, there are 2 cars with twin Brownings. One of these is A167 or A187. In another photo of No2 Company there are 2 cars with twin AA Lewis

Some Fordsons did still mount the Boys rifle but some had a .50 AN/M2 Browning mounted where the Boys Rifle would normally be, in the square box extension on the right turret front. At least one of those also had twin AA .303 Brownings. Not bad firepower.

The ring mounts are those from the rear cockpits of obsolete biplane aircraft, commonly called Scarff mounts.

Colour-wise, The No2 Company cars in the pre-Alamein photo all appear to be in an overall colour. As these were base workshop conversions, policy would have been to repaint them in the current scheme at the time - which by the time of Alamein was no longer "caunter". Overall Light Stone 61 or Desert Pink Z1. A colour photo of these cars suggests Light Stone rather than Pink.

If you've seen one in "caunter" it is most likely an original Rolls and not a Fordson conversion. No1 Company certainly had some Rolls in "caunter". The Fordsons were noticeably longer at the rear with the rear wheels much further back and had smaller wheels with 5 triangular holes.

Might I suggest that you invest in Mike Starmer's booklet on British colours post-Alamein. You can buy directly from him at [email protected]. In fact all his booklets are worth having if you model British subjects. A complete set is about £60.

If you have an interest in RAF Armoured Cars can I also suggest that you invest in the excellent book "in Every Place" by Nigel Warwick, which is dedicated to that subject. £29.95 directly from the RAF Regiment Association at [email protected]

Peter,
Many thanks for your most informative reply. Yes, I have Mike Starmer's 'Caunter Scheme' book (excellent!)
I also have David Fletcher's 'Tanks in Camera' book, which has a photo of a Fordson (vehicle code: A125) (page 30), in what appears to be a heavily worn Caunter scheme finish ... although much of the body seems to be one colour, there is a noticeable tonal change around the right-hand side of the turret. Attached to the antenna is a square flag, divided into four quarters. Two of the sections appear to be white ... any idea what the the other two would be ... red?

Here's a picture showing a two(at least)-color camo :



H.P.

That's a really useful image ... many thanks.
Any idea as to the two-colour scheme?
Would the front-mounted pennant relate to the RAF?

If you have Mike Starmer's booklet then you know that disruptive patterns over Light Stone or Desert Pink were permitted in a range of colours according to local availability.

The colour contrast in the photo above suggests Dark Brown or Dark Slate: it probably isn't dark green or black. The Dark Slate was really Slate, which was the same colour used on "Caunter" schemes. Some veterans called this "desert grey". On the last page of his "caunter" booklet Starmer says that RAF vehicles in the Middle East were generally Light Stone. RAF did not have to comply with Army practice, but generally did where they were co-located.

Your photo also shows a K gun on the AA mount: looks like a single. There are no photos in the book of K guns on Fordsons.
Looking at the mountains in the background (under the car) I think this could be Iraq or Palestine. RAF cars in Iraq did sport a "sand and brown" scheme and the RAF roundel was more commonly used as tactical marking there.

There are undated photos of A105 and A115 as Fordsons in Caunter with single Army-pattern Lewis gun on a scarff AA mount. Unit not stated.

There is a photo of A123 in Caunter as a No2 Coy vehicle at the time of Mersa Matruh. This has twin air-pattern Lewis guns on the earlier AA mount.

I found another photo of No2 Company parading with "new" Fordsons prior to their 11th Hussars attachment. They are again all single-colour, probably Light Stone, and all with simpler AA ring mounts without the elevating quadrant section and with a single Army-pattern Lewis.

The pre-Alamein parade photo of No2 Company is clearly still a single overall colour, as are many other No2 Company-attributed photos. I note that this is described as being after refitting and re-arming, which explains the AA armament changes. The air pattern Lewis' actually seem to be mostly the type with the slim, short, non-concentric cooling jacket rather than the fully un-jacketed type. Gas Patch make the correct type IIRC.

The book doesn't really discuss painting and marking. RAF cars didn't use Army-style markings or serials. They seem to have carried a 4-character serial in the format "Annn" or "A-nnn" on front offside and rear nearside. Positions varied. Some No2 Company cars had the air recognition roundel on the bonnet.

There is only 1 photo in the book showing a bonnet pennant on a Fordson, so it isn't universal by any means. That one also seems to have a darker spot in the centre. There is a photo of a pre-war Rolls with a dark bonnet pennant with a pale spot with the Section letter in it. D in that case. So one might surmise that it might have been used sometimes in lieu of an army-style geometric tactical sign.

Triangular antenna pennants are commonplace, with the odd square one, as they were on Army AFV. No pictures clear enough to make out any design on them. There is one picture of A125 with a larger square 4-quadrant antenna pennant, possibly black and white.

Regarding 11th Hussars, No2 Company were attached to them for operations before Alamein such as Compass, and worked interchangeably with them. But for Alamein and after they came under command of 211 Group RAF and worked on RAF taskings mostly concerned with securing and protecting landing grounds, including escorting Army AA units assigned to defend them.

No2 Coy's Fordsons were retired in Feb 43 and replaced with Otters for the Tunisia campaign. No1 Company got Humbers much earlier.

Your photo shows the radiator doors possibly hung upside down. The 3 slots were usually at the top. That makes 4 different door configurations I've spotted. 1- no slots. 2- 3 slots top. 3- 3 slots bottom. 4- as for 2 but with a 2-slot spaced plate inside and out, presumably for better ballistic protection.

Other interesting pics (providing you don't know them already of course ) :

"Armoured cars lining up, getting ready to move off to another front after capturing Fort Rutbah. Location: Iraq Date taken: 1941 Photographer: James Jarche."



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Full size

I guess this one is from the same area :



H.P.